Pay Rise Cancelled for NHS staff

Fire_Fox wrote: »

The National Health Service is the largest organisation in Europe.

The largest organisation in Europe and yet:

The NHS is not fit for purpose

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/helen_evans/blog/2008/07/03/the_nhs_is_not_fit_for_purpose

It is only the biggest because it is the most wasteful. The NHS represents a noble cause but it has been taken over by greedy self serving people.

Originally Posted by donaldtramp
Sigh,
I don't want to wait.
I don't want treatment in an MRSA infested hospital, trust me I've experienced it when my other half was in for an operation. The whole ward was shut down due to the fact it was filthy and MRSA was detected all over the ward. That's scary after just coming out of an operation. (I've now paid and she is also private from now on) Yup tax being spent wisely eh?
I will get to see a consultant straight away, no waiting or having to get through the various stages of the health service.
So nothing wrong with "my marbles".

I personally know someones grandmother who lost her life due to an MRSA infection in an NHS hospital. Yup the governement can be proud of itself. Spending money on layers of management instead of claning wards. I suspect I'm agreeing with you on this point. I wholeheartedly agree, the frontline guys do a fanatstic job with what they have been given. It's a case of lions led by donkeys I'm afraid.

I am very sorry to see statements like this about the NHS - such naivety and stupidity is beyond belief.

First you need to answer the following - Who caused MRSA in the first place? Doctors? Nurses? or patients who had a viral infection who demanded antibiotics in the 70's and 80's?

As for MRSA all over the ward? Doubtful as it won't live very well in dry, dusty places. It's more likely to be acquired from someone you know. This is especially the case with elderly patients and is commonly known as community acquired MRSA. Hospital Acquired MRSA is a much rarer beast and tends to be easier to treat.

People die - it happens whether from infection, cancer, old age etc. How many people died from MRSA or Clostridium difficle infections last year compare to overweight people or car accidents? I believe you'll find a rather large ratio in favour of the latter two causes. MRSA is part of evolution, its here to stay and will become normal flora for most people within the next 20 years.

Seeing consultants straight away if you pay for it and then bemoan the fact you spend 'your' taxes on the NHS - tad hypocritical I think. If the consultants weren't spending their spare NHS hours in private practices then perhaps the NHS could become a faster system.

You then slate public sector final salary pensions - tell you what, you go and live in a tent for 4 - 6 months as a large minority of the armed forces do. Get rockerted/mortared/IED/shot at once or twice a day. See the effects of these attack on a daily basis and then tell me they don't deserve the pension. Especially pertinent to those on £17k - £21k I think?

On a general note, why can't people except that its a seesaw and always will be. Good one minute, bad the next who ever your employer is.

One last note - doctors are overpaid. There are very few who are good at their jobs. More importantly there are too many who are appalling, incompetent and even negligent. Junior doctors need more training. Why do you think August and February are know as the start of the killing season in hospitals -something due to the intake of newly 'qualified' doctors?

I am very sorry to see statements like this about the NHS - such naivety and stupidity is beyond belief.

Not naive or stupid, do you read the quality papers about the money wasted in our NHS?

First you need to answer the following - Who caused MRSA in the first place? Doctors? Nurses? or patients who had a viral infection who demanded antibiotics in the 70's and 80's?

As for MRSA all over the ward? Doubtful as it won't live very well in dry, dusty places. It's more likely to be acquired from someone you know. This is especially the case with elderly patients and is commonly known as community acquired MRSA. Hospital Acquired MRSA is a much rarer beast and tends to be easier to treat.

I absolutely, categorically know there were MRSA positive samples all over the ward.
They closed the full ward (which was absolutely filthy) and wheeled all the patients (my partner included) from the ward. This was one of 2 entire wards closed that weekend due to outbreaks.
I agree with you about the patients demanding antibiotics, the overprescription of antibiotics continues to this day.

People die - it happens whether from infection, cancer, old age etc. How many people died from MRSA or Clostridium difficle infections last year compare to overweight people or car accidents? I believe you'll find a rather large ratio in favour of the latter two causes. MRSA is part of evolution, its here to stay and will become normal flora for most people within the next 20 years.

Easy to quote "car accidents" and compare it to MRSA. Of course there are going to be more deaths from car accidents, cancer etc. That isn't even an argument, (unless you think strawman arguments are real:rolleyes:) My point is, NHS hospitals are absolutely filthy. (easily remedied) Private hospitals are not.

Seeing consultants straight away if you pay for it and then bemoan the fact you spend 'your' taxes on the NHS - tad hypocritical I think. If the consultants weren't spending their spare NHS hours in private practices then perhaps the NHS could become a faster system.

Not hypocritical at all. I pay my taxes to support the NHS, their bullet proof pensions and their wages. I also pay to see private doctors. I pay twice! How is that hypocritical?

You then slate public sector final salary pensions - tell you what, you go and live in a tent for 4 - 6 months as a large minority of the armed forces do. Get rockerted/mortared/IED/shot at once or twice a day. See the effects of these attack on a daily basis and then tell me they don't deserve the pension. Especially pertinent to those on £17k - £21k I think?

Don't spout this rubbish at me. You are PRESUMING my thoughts about the army. My relative is just back from Afghanistan and is shortly returning. I have full respect for our troops and the job that they do.
These guys genuinely deserve the money they get (and more).
It is all too easy to highlight the tiny proportion of the people employed by the state (army, and those in the "front line" doctors, nurses etc at A&E) who do a great job isn't it?
This tiny, minute proportion of the public sector,
DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE SUPPORT OF MILLIONS OF BUREAUCRATIC LEECHES ON THE PUBLIC SECTOR PAYROLL

I have just read this thread from the start and find it rather amusing!
Firstly I'm obviously employed in the wrong hospital since my salary would be nowhere near £30K a year! (apparently what a nurse earns??)
Secondly even now when I have chosen to work PT I will regularly work unpaid overtime, without meal breaks and often without time for a drink or a toilet break either! I am not considered "front line" staff but quite often feel like it as I receive regular verbal abuse and occasional physical abuse....I am not in a position to refuse to treat these patients as the NHS have yet to 'advise' us on our rights in refusing a treatment that could then result in the patient dying that night!
Thirdly when people talk of our wages can you please remember that we also have to pay for the privilege of working....I have to pay NMC membership, union membership and parking fees oh and even pay for my photographic ID!

I have not one agency work since I took on my original permanent position as quite frankly working short staffed every shift I am too exhausted mentally and physically to even consider doing an agency shift, even though it would pay me double my wage to do it.

As for private healthcare.....I recently went against all my beliefs and took my daughter to be seen privately. She had been referred on NHS and waiting time was approx 6mths for initial consultation, a phone call later she can see the same consultant privately the next week at a cost of £180 for a ten minute appointment! This was on a Tues lunchtime, perhaps if NHS consultants were more limited in doing private work their waiting lists would be alot shorter and their junior doctors would not be left overworked so often.

lunar wrote: »

Im loving reading this thread, I know there is a great deal of waste in the NHS, im sure there is just as much in the rest of the public sector and in the private sector too. Front line staff on both sides suffer, and while there is very public redundancies for private sector staff the NHS do it to us in a more sneeky way. For the last 2 years none of the staff that i know have retired have been replaced. posts are dissapearing all the time from the front line.

as an NHS nurse, I can say that the majority of the senior hospital doctors are worth every penny. they have a wealth of knowledge that cant be matched by many other professions. as for nurses wanting to be doctors, no way would i want to take that on. my only argument against their pay if when they first qualify, im a sister and often provide teaching, support, and hand holding to junior doctors. it does make me mad that while some tremble at the end of a bed when a patient arrests/fits/bleeds out/goes psychotic (as we all did in the beginning) and watch and learn from me, they are earning more than me! There isnt much respect in the way of pay for experience, and i often work a 55 hour week for 37.5 hours pay.

If they really want to start freezing and cutting pay whats new, they screwed us with the banding any way. i know plenty of nurses that are looking to the middle east jobs, £3000 per month, accomodation included, no tax. There are many people over paid in the NHS but its not doctors and nurses.

I'm not sure that's entirely correct. The sisters on my ward earn (deservedly) more than I do.
I agree wholeheartedly that junior doctors do get taught and helped a lot by nursing staff, particularly senior ones, during our working life. However there are 2 sides to it. You call on us to make the ultimate decisions, and it is our name down in the notes when we decide to give that IV frusemide or whatever.
We can't all be experts when we first start out, and many more junior nurses require hand holding by both senior nursing staff and medical staff. The amount of times I get entirely innapropriate bleeps is unreal, asking stuff like "can you review this patient please, they are tachycardic at 92 bpm". Answer. No, I can't, and my pulse is probably a hell of a lot higher than that now!

The other thing is the student debt. Nurses get their fees paid and a bursary, on a 3-4 year degree. We get neither on a 5-7 year degree. So we start out in a much worse position financially than newly qualified nurses.

I have also noticed, yes, that sisters and ward managers do tend to stay longer hours on the ward than they are contracted for. Our ward manager went home at 11am from a night shift the other day. It's not fair and it the level of staffing should allow her to go home on time. It's a problem for us too, out of hours cover is terribly low and so if we want something doing we have to stay behind, especially if we have a sick patient.