Pay Rise Cancelled for NHS staff

Cleaver

iltisman wrote: »

I think the NHS needs bonuses rather than pay increases, based on survival rates this may make them be a bit more focused on the "customer".

Or, more probably, would result in hospitals located in poor health areas unable to recruit staff.

I'm fully behind the NHS being more customer focussed (although well meaning, many Trusts are shocking at it), but bonus realted pay based on death rates is not the way to go by a long stretch.

treliac

Cleaver wrote: »

bonus realted pay based on death rates is not the way to go by a long stretch.

Is that, the more you bump off, the more you earn?

SamIAm_3-2

I have never understood why the NHS and their staff have derogatory comments thrown in their direction. As far as I am concerned they offer the best state funded health care service I know.
The only gripe I have with the NHS is the over subscription of GP surgeries and their inability to devote enough time to diagnose/treat patients within one, two or even three visits. Having a BIL in this area, it appears that the blame for this does not lie with the doctors' or practices themsleves but rather with dictated treatment times by authorities not qualified to dictate anything medical.

lana22

macaque wrote: »

Of course nurses are free to apply to medical school. Some even get accepted. The point I made was that many more would be training as doctors if the opportunies were given to them.

The phrase class system is not a reference to chinless wonders in plus 4s. Hospitals have retained hierarchies that would do credit to Victorian cotton mills.

I agree that nurses are not skivvies. So why do they get treated as such?

You are arguing a non existent argument.
Why insult nurses by assuming they are only nurses because they can't get a place at medical school? They are very different careers.
Why have nurses not got the opportunity to become doctors? People from all walks of life become nurses and doctors. If you are implying upbringing or schooling has something to do with it - I went to a comprehensive, as did many, many of my colleagues. Some came from very deprived city centre areas with parents who couldn't give two hoots about their education. By contrast a friend I was at uni with who is a nurse went to a very posh boarding school in Scotland, and her parents are very wealthy. She is an excellent nurse, and can't think of anything worse than being a doctor.

Hospitals may have hierachies, but I can assure you doctors are not above nurses in this hierachy. In fact as a junior doctor, I am right at the bottom. I am at the beck and call of the nursing staff.
However the medical school admissions system is completely separate from this, and is run by universities.

Either you are a failed medical school entrant, or you have absolutely no idea about how doctors are trained.

lana22

Cleaver wrote: »

She hasn't shot herself in the foot. Volunteering to do shifts that gain experience and showing willing to learn and work will pay far more dividends, career wise and pay wise, in the long term than the pain in the short term. More doctors like that are needed IMHO.

Thanks. I have to get the experience otherwise when I'm more senior and it's 3am and I'm on my own, it will be someone's relative who won't get the care they deserve.
Managers don't seem to understand the experience out of hours is very different and absolutely crucial to our learning. During my medical job I learnt 90% of my knowledge on-call, and thought they were an experience worth repeating surgery.

If I don't get paid, then that's just a sad reflection on the way the NHS treats its junior doctors. We already have no bargaining power. It's not like we can just go off and work for another company if we don't like the conditions (unlike nurses), we are stuck with the NHS (unless we join the military). They know that, and play on it.

hullight

My mate's dad just got a brand new Audi, courtesy of the NHS, in addition to his £40,000+ manager salary.

Graham_Devon

hullight wrote: »

My mate's dad just got a brand new Audi, courtesy of the NHS, in addition to his £40,000+ manager salary.

What does he do?

It's extremely rare to get a company car in the NHS. Infact, bar the executive for our PCT, I don't know anyone who has one. I know many engineers though who can choose from a pool of cars, BUT, they pay for this out of their wages, then claim the a certain mileage back. I think it's 20p per mile they are allowed to claim if they have one of those cars, but they pay that back in essence through leasing it. If you have your own car, you get 40p per mile.

macaque_2

lana22 wrote: »

You are arguing a non existent argument.
Why insult nurses by assuming they are only nurses because they can't get a place at medical school? They are very different careers.
Why have nurses not got the opportunity to become doctors? People from all walks of life become nurses and doctors. If you are implying upbringing or schooling has something to do with it - I went to a comprehensive, as did many, many of my colleagues. Some came from very deprived city centre areas with parents who couldn't give two hoots about their education. By contrast a friend I was at uni with who is a nurse went to a very posh boarding school in Scotland, and her parents are very wealthy. She is an excellent nurse, and can't think of anything worse than being a doctor.

Hospitals may have hierachies, but I can assure you doctors are not above nurses in this hierachy. In fact as a junior doctor, I am right at the bottom. I am at the beck and call of the nursing staff.
However the medical school admissions system is completely separate from this, and is run by universities.

Either you are a failed medical school entrant, or you have absolutely no idea about how doctors are trained.

Speaking as a patient, plenty of the doctors I have come accross have been temperamentally unfit for the job whereas tons of not so clever nurses would have made great doctors. In a quota based system that sets outstanding academic achievement as the ticket for membership, those nurses stand a slim chance against hot housed children from our best schools.

Whilst you may have a lowly status as a junior doctor today, that will not last as you climb the ladder. A common feature of hospital scandals is that junior medical staff often knew of problems but were afraid to speak out. Looking at it from the outside hierarchies in hospitals seem to be fostered for the benefit of senior staff.

There are two things that really puzzles me. How can a doctor be worth 5 times a trained nurse and why are our doctors paid so much compared to many other countries. It is not as if the record of our health service is better than those other countries. Quite the contrary in fact.

macaque_2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

What does he do?

It's extremely rare to get a company car in the NHS. Infact, bar the executive for our PCT, I don't know anyone who has one. I know many engineers though who can choose from a pool of cars, BUT, they pay for this out of their wages, then claim the a certain mileage back. I think it's 20p per mile they are allowed to claim if they have one of those cars, but they pay that back in essence through leasing it. If you have your own car, you get 40p per mile.

I think you should get your coat.

NHS chiefs get luxury car deals........

The bill for leasing the 35,000 cars for NHS staff is now close to £90m, while the cost for new leases rose by more than 3.5% last year, according to government figures. It coincides with a growing cash crisis in the NHS with total deficits estimated at more than £800m and trusts cancelling operations and threatening more than 5,000 job cuts.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article703534.ece

Sir_Humphrey

I am not surprised that Macaque and Donald Tramp hate doctors. From their postings, I reckon they are right to fear men in white coats...