Landlord threatening court action (I never signed a contract)

Rob_tt

Hi I am new to the forum and hope some one may help me.

I have lived in rented accommodation for 12 months. There was never a formal signed contract as I was previously renting the flat upstairs and the new landlord said he would sort something out, he never did. It was a verbal contract.
My landlord is also responsible for the maintenance on the communal build of which I live.
I moved in and set up a standing order and paid one months rent up front as a deposit.

On a few occasions my landlord had entered my flat and taken a few things (which did belong to him) but he never asked permission to enter or told me he had entered.

My boiler packed up and the landlord fitted a new one (I was with out heating and hot water for over 2 weeks) I was given the keys to another flat by the landlord as the people in this flat were on holiday (he has keys to all 8 flats in the building).
I was given £100 compensation for this.
My landlord then phoned me about 1.5 months later and asked if anyone was going to be in the flat so the boiler could be tested. I said my partner would be in, however on the day the inspection was to take place my landlord was undertaking maintenance on the above flat - inconveniencing my partner and also with out notice. As a result of the disturbance (drilling/hammering/banging) my partner went out and left a note saying he could let the engineer in to test the boiler as she had gone out due to the banging etc etc.

Later that night I had a call from the landlord who wanted to see me. He can round the next evening and said he was 'concerned about the state of his flat'. He said the shower needed cleaning, there was grime on the kitchen cupboards, a small dent in a kitchen cupboard, two small dent in the living room wall, plastic bags on the wardrobes in the bedroom were a fire risk due to the halogen spotlights above them and the living room smoke alarm was not in place.

I was quite angered at these claims (bar the bags & smoke alarm) and said to him that I had not given him permission to enter my bedroom or bathroom, you he was only here to let the engineer in.

My outburst resulted in him giving me a letter stating he want us out in 2 months. I cancelled my direct debit, which was due in the 5th March and moved out last night (14th March) I cleaned the flat to a satisfactory standard and left the keys and a note saying he could keep my deposit and I had signed nothing legally binding us.

He has today text me threatening court action and also he is going to sue me for the cleaning bill.

I have now changed my mobile number but just want some advice please.
Have I done the right thing?

Thanks in advance

cte1111

Not sure really. I would have been angry for my landlord had poked round my flat without permission, and complained that the shower was dirty (my shower so my business).

Don't think he will get anywhere suing you, but it could be a worry in the meantime. Have you found somewhere else to live so quickly?

Rob_tt

Hi & thanks for the swift reply.

Yeah I was horrified that he bought me up on my own hygene!!!
As long as the flat is returned in the same condition with suitable wear & tear it sure is none of his business about cleanliness???

I have moved in with my fiance's parents. basically why should I remain there paying him another 2 months rent after what he said!! His letter stated out on or before 10th April...

Regards

Rob

theartfullodger

Was there an earlier tenancy before the new Landlord turned up/bought the property..or was that for a different property??

My understanding (I'm a Landlord) is that with a propery, "normal" tenancy agreement (an AST - "assured shorthold tenancy" usually) you the tenant have MORE rights than usual. Landlords are told to make sure everything is signed and correct - to protect the Landlord... (You're in england & Wales??)

Did the property have it's one bathroom & kitchen - i.e. not sharing Landlord's facilities??

This one is probably a bit tricky & complicated - it could turn out if nothing was signed he has no right to the deposit anyway, although you've said he can have it. According to the UK government website (if England & Wales)
"
What if your landlord isn’t protecting your deposit?

You can apply to your local county court. The court can order the landlord or agent to either repay the deposit to you or protect it in a scheme. If your landlord or agent has not protected your deposit, they will be ordered to repay three times the amount of the deposit to you.

"
at
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TenancyDeposit/DG_066373

I think you need to get advice very quickly from either CaB or Shelter on this one.
CaB via..
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index.htm

Shelter via their helpline on 0808 800 4444

Good luck! I have lots of sympathy for you - he sounds like the sort of Landlord us Landlords don't want and we all want to get rid of. However, there could be money in it for you !!

Cheers!

Artful..

Rob_tt

Yes I live in England.
I previously rented that flat above and for this I had a written contract through an estate agents, when my 6month tennancy expired I moved to the flat below where no written contract was produced.

The property consisted of one living room, one bathroom, one bedroom & a kitchen. This flat is inside a building comprising of 8 flats. My landlord last year purchased the flat above me and now rents that out.

My landlord is in-experienced I think as I am the 1st tennant he has ever had.

He constantly performed maintenance on the flat above once he purchased it. I even wrote him a letter asking for 24hours notice prior to any maintenance work!!
It was as early as 8.30 am some days even weekends!!

What does 'protect my deposit in a scheme mean'

Regards

Rob

sooz

Rob_tt wrote: »

....just want some advice please.
Have I done the right thing?

No, but neither has your LL.

Did you speak to you LL when you say stuff went missing previously? If you were concerned about this, perhaps you should have considered not allowing him permission to enter your property for a gas check whilst you were out.

What rooms would he have to go through to get to the boiler, & any other gas appliances? The plumber may well have needed access to all the radiators in the flat too - is is quite normal with a combi boiler.

He obviously had some concerns, particularly about the smoke alarm & the fire risk of plastic bags near halogen lights. Cleanliness until you leave the property is not his concern. It doesn't sound like he acted in a professional manner with his impromtu inspection, or how he raised these concerns with you.

Rob_tt wrote: »

....He constantly performed maintenance on the flat above once he purchased it. I even wrote him a letter asking for 24hours notice prior to any maintenance work!!
It was as early as 8.30 am some days even weekends!!

Anyone could have bought the flat above yours & started to do work to it. Just becaise he was also your LL doesn't mean he's obliged to give you 24hours notice, unless he had to access that flat through yours. 8.30 or 9am on weekdays is quite normal for builders to start work, & some do work on Saturdays too. It is polite for a neighbour to inform you before all work commences, but they don't have to, unless a party wall act is needed.

Have a look at the website links artfullodger gave you for the deposit schemes. The LL should have protected your deposit, & given you information about this. Since he has not (as you seem unaware of it), he cannot serve you notice via a section 21.

If he is as inexperienced as you say, I doubt he will get anywhere with suing you, if he's failed to protect your deposit you can try to claim 3 times the deposit as a fine. If you put this to him in writing, & surrender the tenancy properly, not by text, you should be able to come to an arrangement.

tbs624

Whether or not your tenancy of the second flat was under a verbal agreement, it is likely , by default, to be an assured short hold tenancy and the LL may not seek repossession within the initial 6 months, unless you have committed a specific breach of tenancy by, for example, failing to pay your rent.

However, it may be me being slow, but could you set out the timescales a bit more clearly?

You say that for the first flat you were dealt with by an EA/LA and that you set up a standing order & paid a months rent in advance “ as a deposit”.

When did your first standing order go out? Rent is usually paid in advance, so if your first standing order went out a month after your tenancy started then you haven’t paid a tenancy deposit as such.

If, however, you mean that you paid rent in advance plus a further amount equivalent to a months rent as a deposit do you (a) have a receipt for this and (b) know whether the LL or the EA/LA holds the money?

Your LL sounds like an absolute amateur - no LL should ever simply let themselves in to a tenanted property without first giving the T at least 24 hours notice in writing (& even then access can be refused) and neither should a LL “inspect” the property without notification when at the property to deal with a specific repair issue. He also should not have given you access to another T’s flat because that T was on holiday.

A LL who does not have a signed inventory in place from the start of a tenancy would struggle to justify deductions from any tenant’s deposit on the grounds of a lack of cleanliness, and if you have paid a tenancy deposit after 6 April 2007 then it should have protected by registering it within a scheme. You should also have been given what is called the “prescribed information” about the scheme - both of these should have been dealt with by the LL/LA within 14 days of you paying any tenancy deposit.

Where a LL fails to do this, what this means is that he cannot serve a valid S21 notice ( ie, the 2 month’s notice of the LL’s intent to repossess the property) on his T and the T may apply to the court for immediate scheme registration of the tenancy deposit or repayment of it in full, plus a penalty of 3 x the deposit amount. (The LL may scheme- register the deposit at any time up until the court hearing and so avoid the penalty charge however.)

Did you have a tenant copy of a gas safety certificate for either property btw? (It is a legal requirement that gas appliance are subject to annual checks and a safety cert is provided - LLs have to retain copies for 2 years)

You would have been better, as you're probably aware, to have sought proper advice whilst remaining at the property rather than simply stopping your SO and moving out, but you now need to get some notes put together and, as Artful Lodger has suggested, talk to Shelter. You should also contact the local council, who will have a tenancy Relations Officer (or similarly entitled worker) who deals entirely with private sector rentals. Keep the texts from the LL if you haven’t already deleted them or thrown your old sim card away.

AverageJoe_4

Hi Rob, sorry all the posts were too long but from what I gather:

Landlord cannot enter the premises without your permission.
You never signed a contract so its not looking good for the LL
Having said that, it works both ways - you cant complain about him breaking the rules when you never signed up to them

(by "complain" I mean lodge an official complaint - it'll come back in your face possibly)

The whole situation based on non contract signed could be put down to a grentlemans agreement - your word against his.

It depends on whether you read the Bible or not, I guess. ;-)

AJ

clutton_2

the fact that you pay rent forms a legal contract - but he should not have entered your flat .

tbs624

AJ talking cobblers as usual

AverageJoe wrote: »

......You never signed a contract so its not looking good for the LL
Having said that, it works both ways - you cant complain about him breaking the rules when you never signed up to them

(by "complain" I mean lodge an official complaint - it'll come back in your face possibly)

The whole situation based on non contract signed could be put down to a grentlemans agreement - your word against his.

:rolleyes: AJ - maybe you should check the posts that were too long for you: the tenancy existed and is likely , by default, to be an AST. "Signing up", or a lack thereof, is irrelevant, the T did not share the property with the LL, paid rent & had occupation of the property - the T is still afforded protection by law. Remember that he originally had an AST on one of the other flats owned/managed by this LL so there's further evidence that there was a LL/T relationship between the 2 ( not that this is needed). Maybe you also missed that as the OP was " too long" for you?

Neither party has behaved as they should have done but if the T has paid a tenancy deposit and the LL has failed to register it, and is as amateurish as he sounds, the T may well have a very strong bargaining tool against any action by the LL

Rob_tt

Hi

this thread has moved on some what from my posts earlier in March.

In a nutshell:

The LL made an alication through the CC for 'non payment of rent & damage to the property' totalling £1800.

I made a counterclaim for harrassment/tresspass/non protection of deposit in a DPS totalling £2100

the court have decided a hearing in required and i quote

'the parties attention is drawn to HA 2004 s. 312 (2) and s. 214 (4)'.


if i'm right it appears they are focusing on the failure to protect the deposit and the court may request the LL to repay 3x the amount???

should i be worried? can i make the application for 3x the deposit AFTER the tennancy has ended? can the judge dismiss this on the ground it no tenancy was in place? it seems the claims by the LL for damage to the property have been dismissed???

the hearing is set for 16 October '09.
thanks


Robin