PCN: Lack of signage

Banco

Hi everyone,

Been reading these forums for a while - excellent work everyone!

I've received a parking ticket, and have been reading through the various pieces of advice but haven't found anything that specifically seems to relate to my experience. I don't have an issue with the actual notice, that seems to fulfill all the criteria. But I do have an issue with the absence if signage.

The road I parked on was a one way street, with at the entrance a series of disabled parking bays, properly signed. After that was a parking space, which I used, and came back to find a parking ticket. Now the ticket was for parking in a residents area, but as per the links there was no signage (or rather, it appears the signage has been removed) to indicate that this was a residents area.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Papillon10/image1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Papillon10/image2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Papillon10/image3noplate.jpg

Now, as I found out when I got back to the car and drove off, there WAS a sign much further down the road stating it was a residents area, but being a one way street there was no way I could have known that until later.

Instinct suggests to me that it's a completely unreasonable ticket (and of course I wouldnt have parked there had I known), but what I've been unable to find out (and if I've been dim and missed something obvious, apologies) is what the responsibilities over signing the council has. Is this as clearly unfair as I think or am I missing something?

Thanks,

Neil_B

No not dim. seems a reasonable argument but you haven't explained exactly where in the pics you parked or shown all of the bay markings.

- and what makes you think that the PCN "fulfils all the criteria"?

- and, of course, which Council?
-

Banco

Oh sorry! My car is the silver S2000.

I based that on reading through what the requirements on the form ought to be, and it seems reasonable. You see, I wasn't trying to actually "get away" with anything, I genuinely didn't know this was a residents area, and don't see how I could have known.

It's Hounslow Council

Banco

here's the ticket by the way

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Papillon10/ticket-1.jpg

Neil_B

Well yeah, that's a bit of the PCN. Where's the rest? I vaguley remember Hounslow are compliant but there are flaws on their next doc the Notice to Owner, if it gets that far.

i think your signage argument is strong but always best to hit them with as much as possible.
you seem to be ignoring my comment about proper pics of the bay. The ends or where it joins others are particularly relevant. I appreciate, though, you need the cars out of the way!
-

Banco

The back of it? I'll upload that later and let you have a look.

Those are the only pics I have. In my naiivety I thought that was enough. Unfortunately, this isn't local to me, so I can't go back and take more.

The only info that I can give you is verbal I'm afraid, that the section starts with a series of disabled bays which are properly signed stating that only authorised disabled badge holders are permitted to park. Then it goes straight into this section. In other words, there is no previous sign on the road anywhere stating that it's residents only. Apologies that I haven't got more for you to look at.

Neil_B

You don't have to apologise to me. It's your loss on the pics and you weren't to know.
many bays are flawed. Where two different bays join is often wrongly marked and the ends of bays ditto.

Basically, if you were in one long bay with morse dashes down the outside then it should terminate with single lines. Many are wrongly marked with double lines - which apply to a different type of bay. Doesn't look like you're gonna be able to find out.

Generali

IIRC, according to the Evening Standard a few years back, it's for you to work out if you can park legally, not for the council to tell you. Has the law been changed or is my memory faulty?

Good luck with getting away with it through the small print though.

peter_the_piper

Its not a case of "Getting away with it", you have to follow the rules when parking. By the same token the councils also have strict rules they HAVE to follow. If they don't then the parking system fails and is not lawful and you have not contravened the parking regulations.
I gave up reading newspapers a long time ago as they were often a bit liberal with the facts and were not always accurate.

TheBogsDollocks

Banco wrote: »

what I've been unable to find out (and if I've been dim and missed something obvious, apologies) is what the responsibilities over signing the council has. Is this as clearly unfair as I think or am I missing something?

Thanks,

If this is not a residents CPZ then the DfT guidance is that a sign should be placed within 15 metres of the beginning of the bay and then at intervals of approximately 30m. If the bay is less than 30m then a sign should be mounted at the mid point of the bay.

The sign should be similar to this

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/02311354.gif

Banco

OK, an update on this one. I'm told that the street in question was a CPZ (I never knew any of this stuff!!) - it was Chiswick Road which means that none of the above applies. But I never saw any of that.