Builder's 'estimate'

Iona_Penny

Anyone know what is reasonable to expect an estimate for building work to show in terms of 'breaking down' the work? Builders have started the job (would not sign working contract) and costs are spiralling out of control; when they submitted a bill for payment and were asked for a detailed account of what it was for just said 'that's not how they work'

Any thoughts? Accept this? Ditch them?

paullwill8

Ask for a written Quote for the rest of the job, if they are not happy with that then get someone else in.
That's what I'd do.

caveat_emptor

Iona_Penny wrote:

Anyone know what is reasonable to expect an estimate for building work to show in terms of 'breaking down' the work? Builders have started the job (would not sign working contract) and costs are spiralling out of control; when they submitted a bill for payment and were asked for a detailed account of what it was for just said 'that's not how they work'
Any thoughts? Accept this? Ditch them?

Guess you had an estimate or better still a quote of cost before work started so ask builder why costs are over estimate/quote. Builder should give you a breakdown of labour and materials costs billed, if he doesn't, refuse to pay until he does. To say that's 'not how they work' is unacceptable.
You owing them money puts you in a strong position to negotiate but be prepared for some unpleasantness.
Whether you proceed depends on balancing the cost escalation against the inconvenience of finding another builder and delay in completion.
If things get nasty report the builder to your local trading standards office and the builders trade association, if he has one.
I had a similar problem where I had to pay a builder to rectify faults of another and deducted costs of rectification from the original builder's bill. I got the usual abuse but in the end he had to accept the settlement.

Tom_Jones

Personally I would not start any job without a contract and cost estimate in place, by not signing such a contract then you leave yourself wide open to be overcharged. You will have to pay the builders bill that he has provided, although you may be able to negotiate a small discount. Any further work should be estimated (materials and labour cost will suffice) and a basic contract should be signed between you and the builder and witnessed by a 3rd party, and any further extra costs than may incurr should be agreed in writing between you and the builder before the work is carried out.

calmgirl

This type of thread keeps appering here COMUNICATION AND UNDERSTANDING is whats needed before the job. otherwise as the above have mentioned ( Calmgirls HUSBAND HERE)

lo_jo

I am in the building trade and do not sign contracts, my customers trust and refer me. However I will always provide detailed estimates before doing anything, that way there is never any debate when it comes to payment as to what it costs and whats included.
Perhaps you could post what they are charging for what so we can comment.
I would be very concerned if any of my friends or family engaged a builder without a clue what the job was going to cost.

safesound

I had my BIL do some building work for me recently (he's a builder by trade) and he gave a me a verbal quote of between £700 and £1000. Lo and behold though after he'd finished he decided that it was more like £1500 (which is what I ended up paying him) for opening up one fireplace (plasterboading it square), hacking off and rendering a chimney breast and two alcoves (about 2.5 metres wide by 2 metres tall) plasterboarding said alcoves/chimney breast, and opening out the fireplace in said chimney. It took him and a labourer just four days and I *know* the materials cost him less than £100 but I had no written quotes, estimates or anything on paper so I couldnt argue about what was included in the original price.
Do I feel ripped off? Not necessarily, I'm happy with the result.
Will I use/reccommend him again? Not on your life.

In case I didnt expalin it properly heres some pictures of the work (half way down the page):
http://www.ebonydragon.co.uk/Virtual.html

sharon

Tom_Jones

lo_jo wrote:

I am in the building trade and do not sign contracts, my customers trust and refer me. However I will always provide detailed estimates before doing anything, that way there is never any debate when it comes to payment as to what it costs and whats included.
Perhaps you could post what they are charging for what so we can comment.
I would be very concerned if any of my friends or family engaged a builder without a clue what the job was going to cost.

One day you will live to regret not signing contracts, there are just as many bad customers, who will not pay, as there are bad builders. I've been stung many times over the last 22 years of being in buisness.

Debt_Free_Chick

calmgirl wrote:

This type of thread keeps appering here COMUNICATION AND UNDERSTANDING is whats needed before the job. otherwise as the above have mentioned ( Calmgirls HUSBAND HERE)

This is a brilliant comment and well worth consideration.

The contract is what you resort to when you are no longer able to communicate and reason with your supplier. When things don't go as expected, the first thing to do is to TALK ... not run around waving the contract and demanding "rights".

No offence to the OP as we don't know what stage they're at, but to all others .... you need an open honest dialogue with your supplier/contractor. When that goes wrong, then look at the contract!

lo_jo

Tom_Jones wrote:

One day you will live to regret not signing contracts, there are just as many bad customers, who will not pay, as there are bad builders. I've been stung many times over the last 22 years of being in buisness.

I know what you mean, fortunatly I have a system which works well for me and the customer.

Iona_Penny

Ok Thanks for all comments. The building work is not for me but for someone I work with, and I just wanted to get the feel for what is happening.

Basically ,whole house being renovated with extension across the back. The builder was recommended to them so they got no other quotes/estimates :eek: but just took his estimates. When his last bill came in they asked for a detailed breakdown of what it was for and received a reply saying ( to paraphrase) he is the contractor and not a sub-contractor and they should have a contingency fund to allow for unforseen works which will push the price up. They do accept that this could be the case but need to know exactly what don't they?

He has bought doors and windows that they have had no input into and are told if they want others the cost will be down to them; personally I wouldn't have it but as with work in progress they feel caught between a rock and a hard place ie. if he goes they have an unlivable property and no builder.

It is a large project with estimated cost in the 10s of thousands but I still feel they need to have some controls of the budget. Oh, would you guys think a schedule of work a reasonable request? They do not have one but his time line has already doubled ! and they are only 6 weeks in!!

Reasonable next step? They are trying to keep communication open but with great difficulty.