Public sector monster needs to be tamed

MyLastFiver

A creditable response, Donald, to my intemperate post. My problem is not with your desire for a smaller public sector - it's your constant going on about how !!!!!! everything in the public sector is, which I think does not acknowledge the hard work and dedication of a very large number of people, or how necessary for society the bulk of the public sector is. That, and the credence you give to silly non-stories like the one in the Times you quoted above, which detract from the credibility of your argument.

Generali

MyLastFiver wrote: »

Generali, the reason "everyone knows" that you should eat fruit and veg is because of public health campaigns which promote the message. You may have had good parents who gave you good dietary habits, but I certainly didn't and an awful lot of people don't. And they get their info from, as I say, public health campaigns.

As a society we either promote public health, or we don't. I'd rather live in a society that does.

How about the bouncy castle guy? Should we ban bouncy castles from the village fete rather than pay a guy to deliver, erect and secure them? How can you say it's a "non-job"?

The reason I know I should eat fruit 'n' veg is because my Mum told me so. My Boy (aka Generlissimo no. 1) knows at the age of 3 that if you eat too much sugar your tummy hurts but that fruit and veggies have good sugar.

I promote good eating to my kids and pretty much all the other bits of the family and odds and sods of the neighbourhood that end up around here at mealtimes. I expect that most of my kids' mates' parents will give out a similar message. Some don't, most do.

Frankly, my experience is that you pick up a lot more of your dietary habits from your parents than some idiot from the council that you see once or twice in your lifetime.

donaldtramp

which I think does not acknowledge the hard work and dedication of a very large number of people, or how necessary for society the bulk of the public sector is

I truly apologise if it sounds like I've queried the hard work and dedication of a lot of people who I agree work very hard. I know there are 10s of thousands of people doing very worthwhile and necessary jobs and deserve praise, I genuinely mean that.
You are right about my thoughts about a smaller public sector. I think we need it to be.
I do however stand by the thought that we need less "toothbrush assistants" and "bouncy castle specialists".
Come on, even you must admit these jobs are a wee bit much?;)

Wookster

Generali wrote: »

I'm thinking of becoming a train driver and doing a new degree as it goes. Perhaps law as an undergrad or maybe a postgrad. I'm starting to get very bored with just drifting.

What degree are you thinking of doing?

MyLastFiver

I do however stand by the thought that we need less "toothbrush assistants" and "bouncy castle specialists".

Well, as I've said, if you're running a bouncy-castle hire scheme, then you need someone to deliver and set up the bouncy castle. And if you're going to go into schools to teach kids about oral hygiene, then you need someone to do it. Just because these jobs have trivial-sounding names, doesn't necessarily make them non-jobs.

HOWEVER on your wider point about the need for smaller government, I agree with you. I'm a teacher, and find the number of agencies created to tinker with education completely bewildering. I would list them for you but I can't even remember most of them, let alone what they do. There's the DCSF, which changes its name every six months, the QCA, the SSAT, the GTC, the TDA, the LSC, and of course OFSTED... I could go on. I don't know the statistics but I wouldn't be surprised if for every classroom teacher there are half a dozen "suits", perpetuating layers of beaurocracy and justifying their own positions. And this doesn't include necessary admin, such as payroll etc. It's all b0ll0cks. And it's wasteful, meddling, pointless b0ll0cks.

I don't doubt that there are similar layers of b0ll0cks in every government function; health, law enforcement, etc. So my view? If you want to cut waste and inefficiency, sack half of these suits, and leave the people at the sharp end alone.

To return to the specific issue of public-sector pensions, the Teachers Pension Scheme was revised a few years ago so new entrants to the profession get a less favourable pension. I expect that there will be future changes too. I don't expect people to have sympathy for teachers as our pay and benefits are generally good, but please believe me when I say we earn them. It really is a hard job if you do it properly.

I acknowledge there are lazy time-servers in my profession. I acknowledge that the way teachers' performance is currently managed, the lazy and the uncaring get away with it. I would be happy for there to be more accountability for teachers, and those who don't meet the standard be drummed out of the profession, for the sake of the public purse and for the sake of children's education.

BUT it works both ways. If the public sector wants to attract the best people, it needs good incentives.

Turnbull2000

MyLastFiver wrote: »

Well, as I've said, if you're running a bouncy-castle hire scheme, then you need someone to deliver and set up the bouncy castle. And if you're going to go into schools to teach kids about oral hygiene, then you need someone to do it. Just because these jobs have trivial-sounding names, doesn't necessarily make them non-jobs.

Seems in your world there is no such thing as a non-job. If the council decrees that the underside of long fingernails are a breeding ground for germs, does these mean that a Keterin Growth Enforcement Officer is now essential? Got bloody real and get off your cosy taxpayer funded fantasy island.

Teachers and dentists should be capable of telling kids to keep their mouths clean. We shouldn't have to pay thrice over.

chewmylegoff

Generali wrote: »

The reason I know I should eat fruit 'n' veg is because my Mum told me so. My Boy (aka Generlissimo no. 1) knows at the age of 3 that if you eat too much sugar your tummy hurts but that fruit and veggies have good sugar.

I promote good eating to my kids and pretty much all the other bits of the family and odds and sods of the neighbourhood that end up around here at mealtimes. I expect that most of my kids' mates' parents will give out a similar message. Some don't, most do.

Frankly, my experience is that you pick up a lot more of your dietary habits from your parents than some idiot from the council that you see once or twice in your lifetime.

yes, but then i'm guessing you didn't grow up on a scottish council estate, eating deep fried everything three times a day.

Turnbull2000

chewmylegoff wrote: »

yes, but then i'm guessing you didn't grow up on a scottish council estate, eating deep fried everything three times a day.

An expansive, intrusive government and a Scottish council estate are a marriage made in heaven. The socialist Labour party is happy to hand out state benefits so long as they keep voting, and the residents are happy to receive said benefits in return. The government can then create a working voter base to 'serve' the non-working voter-base.

chewmylegoff

Turnbull2000 wrote: »

An expansive, intrusive government and a Scottish council estate are a marriage made in heaven. The socialist Labour party is happy to hand out state benefits so long as they keep voting, and the residents are happy to receive said benefits in return. The government can then create a working voter base to 'serve' the non-working voter-base.

so what would you do about the health crisis in parts of scotland? tactical nuclear strike?

ninky_2

donaldtramp wrote: »

These are OUR taxes, OUR money that the public sector is doing very nicely out of thank you very much.

And exactly whose taxes are paying the bonuses and pensions of all those bailed out PRIVATE SECTOR banks?