Fixtures and fittings - at what stage should we negotiate?

gelato_cat

£390k is 10% less than £425k (the asking price since November). It's actually nearer to 92% as I said earlier.

She has a job waiting for her in her home country and has just extended her visa here by another few months as she thought she'd have sold the house by now. She is going whether she sells the house or not (hence putting it up for rent).

No offence taken - I've never done this before and am a bit blinded by the situation! The dining furniture isn't posh or anything - quite basic, so we thought she might not want to lug it halfway across the world anyway.

Suze

gelato_cat

OK - thanks for the advice. (I've also read stolt's thread! Balls of steel or what?!)

We put the line in because we are scared that the vendor will be so p-d off with our offer that they will refuse to let us bid more. I say that because someone offered us 14% lower than asking price on our flat, the EA told us that the buyer's bf was an estate agent and it was his idea - we thought it was a low offer with tenuous reasons given and wouldn't have accepted anything more from him for fear of gazundering or something similar later on.

I see your point of view though and will take it out. If I knew more about these other low offers I'd feel more confident, but it felt like they had these two offers that they considered low and there was no more conversation. But perhaps that was because the buyer didn't come back with a higher offer or something.

We are doing them a favour, but I'm worried they'll be insulted by a low offer and/or think we're wasting their time...

I saw you advise someone else (I think it was stoltz) to ask the EA what was the lowest the vendor would accept - how does that work then??

Suze

Doozergirl wrote: »

Please omit that last line. You do not let people know that you are willing to go higher - do you think they aren't going to ask for it?! If the vendor doesn't pick that up, the EA will in a second. If the offer is rejected and you want to go higher, go higher - no one will refuse to talk because you offered to low first time round.

% terms of the actual figure? Anything less than 100% sounds rubbish doesn't it really? Please don't dress it up any differently. Just be confident in every offer you make and never ever up your offer in the same conversation as having an offer rejected.

Your attitude is wrong! You're not asking for forgiveness, you are taking something that they don't want anymore off their hands - I know you want it but you are doing them a favour!

harrup

Doozergirl wrote: »

Please omit that last line. You do not let people know that you are willing to go higher - do you think they aren't going to ask for it?! If the vendor doesn't pick that up, the EA will in a second. If the offer is rejected and you want to go higher, go higher - no one will refuse to talk because you offered to low first time round.

% terms of the actual figure? Anything less than 100% sounds rubbish doesn't it really? Please don't dress it up any differently. Just be confident in every offer you make and never ever up your offer in the same conversation as having an offer rejected.

Your attitude is wrong! You're not asking for forgiveness, you are taking something that they don't want anymore off their hands - I know you want it but you are doing them a favour![/quote]

I agree with every single thing you said verbatim but with the exception of the last line. Were you being tongue in cheek? Quite possibly. If so, please disregard the below:

Nothing, and I mean nothing, would make my hackles go up faster and make me dig my heels in deeper than someone who would display that approach: that they are doing me a gargantuan favour in putting in a low offer with a string of additional demands. And I HAVE witnessed it with some friends selling their homes. Every one, without exception, told the potential buyer to take a hike and not to bother them again ( it was a rising market, though!).

If Suze was equivocal about the house - why not. But since they are rather smitten with it .....hmmm.

Other than that: absolutely! Ooze polite confidence from every pore.

gelato_cat

We've forgotten about the F&F for now - will see what's on her list as, like DG says, taking the hob and oven would mean she'd need to make good the kitchen etc. It was mostly those I was worried about as replacing them would be time-consuming, a hassle and an expense. The bookcases I just thought she might be leaving anyway because it would cost more to ship them overseas than it would to buy new ones once there. Just a nice to have really more than anything else. Don't forget I haven't done this before so I am trying to learn the ropes as I go along.

Now I am just concentrating on the offer for the house, no mention of F&F when we offer, and we are going to go in at 8% below asking initially...

I see DG's POV - 8% below last November's asking price isn't that bad, and whoever buys the house will be doing her a favour as she's already dreading the thought of landladying from the other side of the world! She wants rid, we just need to find a mutually acceptable price.

Suze

harrup

Suzey wrote: »

£390k is 10% less than £425k (the asking price since November). It's actually nearer to 92% as I said earlier.

She has a job waiting for her in her home country and has just extended her visa here by another few months as she thought she'd have sold the house by now. She is going whether she sells the house or not (hence putting it up for rent).

No offence taken - I've never done this before and am a bit blinded by the situation! The dining furniture isn't posh or anything - quite basic, so we thought she might not want to lug it halfway across the world anyway.

Suze

Nerve racking business, isn't it?

Suze - what is your gut feeling about your intended offer? Do you think the current asking price is fair, competitive & accurate given the market and the condition & location of the house?

If it is - and you both love the house - it's tricky to offer 10% less on an already greatly reduced house. UNLESS it was vastly overpriced to begin with. Was it?

Be careful - she MIGHT rather rent it out OR accept a highter offer to yours outright if your offer is too low and there are other contenders.

gelato_cat

I personally don't think there are other contenders, otherwise she wouldn't be doing up the house... If our offer is too low we can up it. We can pay asking price, we just don't want to!

I think everything in the area was vastly overpriced. These are two-bed terraces and some we've seen (more imposing, with period features) are on for £499995. We have no idea why this one hasn't already been snapped up - it offers a lot more space for a lot less money. We can only think it's because it doesn't have the Victorian features - fireplaces etc.

I think the area has a lot further to fall - she bought it for £258k in 2001. Things were selling there for £360k three years ago. Hardly anything sold between July and December last year.

Suze

harrup wrote: »

Nerve racking business, isn't it?

Suze - what is your gut feeling about your intended offer? Do you think the current asking price is fair, competitive & accurate given the market and the condition & location of the house?

If it is - and you both love the house - it's tricky to offer 10% less on an already greatly reduced house. UNLESS it was vastly overpriced to begin with. Was it?

Be careful - she MIGHT rather rent it out OR accept a highter offer to yours outright if your offer is too low and there are other contenders.

Doozergirl

Suzey wrote: »

I see DG's POV - 8% below last November's asking price isn't that bad, and whoever buys the house will be doing her a favour as she's already dreading the thought of landladying from the other side of the world.

That's exactly what i wanted you to understand I can see that you are nervous and simply wanted you to know that this is not a one way street of insecurity -she feels the same way. She needs you as well. 8% below is a respectable offer.

I have also been in the situation several times where people have offered low but it's not coincidental that those that never up their offers end up being viewed badly. I don't subscribe to offering and walking away - you have to get into the vendor's radar as a serious potential. Your gut always ends up correct in that respect. As long as you can convey your sincerity to the vendor they won't resent you when you up an offer. If, as a vendor, someone does get to the price you would accept - it's unlikely anyway that you would reject based on the fact that you weren't entirely sure about a buyer. They have to prove themselves that way. Push your positives, push your love of the house but do not be a push over because you are letting your heart rule.

StringersAppliances

Is it not something your solicitor can give advice on. When i moved house our solicitor just negotiated with their solicitor for us.

gelato_cat

Thanks. Yes, I think OK she would get monthly rental income, but she is probably also thinking she could do with the lump sum to take back home when she leaves the country.

I did a quick bit of maths and she dropped her price by less than 10% last time. If we offer £390k it's only 15% less than her September 2008 (original) asking price. We are willing to go higher, but don't want to go full asking! We need to find the zone in which she is comfortable to let the house go. She may be holding out for asking price, who knows... but I would have thought most people would look at their asking price and think "I'd be willing to accept X less"??

If our first offer gets [strike]accepted[/strike] rejected, do you think we should ask what she is willing to accept? Or should we go away, think about it and come back with a higher offer without trying to gauge her?

Suze

Doozergirl wrote: »

That's exactly what i wanted you to understand I can see that you are nervous and simply wanted you to know that this is not a one way street of insecurity -she feels the same way. She needs you as well. 8% below is a respectable offer.

I have also been in the situation several times where people have offered low but it's not coincidental that those that never up their offers end up being viewed badly. I don't subscribe to offering and walking away - you have to get into the vendor's radar as a serious potential. Your gut always ends up correct in that respect. As long as you can convey your sincerity to the vendor they won't resent you when you up an offer. If, as a vendor, someone does get to the price you would accept - it's unlikely anyway that you would reject based on the fact that you weren't entirely sure about a buyer. They have to prove themselves that way. Push your positives, push your love of the house but do not be a push over because you are letting your heart rule.

Doozergirl

Ask what she is willing to accept. It's fine to ask once you've made your first offer.

Don't let the agent tell you in that conversation either - they are unlikely to know. Ask them to ask the vendor how much she would be willing to accept. iyswim!

Good Luck!!