Apprentice advice needed...

Lifeisbutadream

OK I have done my sums and they just dont add up, so I could really do with some advice here:

We run a small joinery/building business. As with every other business in this economic climate we are struggling at the moment.

Last year we took on an apprentice - at the time we were doing quite well and wanted to expand the business, which is why we took someone on. The lad we took on is 24.

He is very keen, but to be honest, he is not the sharpest tool in the box - he is costing us money rather than making us money (which is to be expected of an apprentice obviously, that isnt in question)

Because he is in his first year, we are paying him £105 per week - we are happy with that and can afford it at the moment.

Come September though, we will have to pay him Minimum Wage, regardless of whether he is any better at work than he is now. We simply cannot afford to do that if the level of business stays as it is.

We really want to help him - he is a nice lad and I am sure that eventually he will be OK, but where does that leave us? should we let him go now, or let him finish his first year and then hope that we are doing better financially? if we are not then I dont want to get into any trouble for letting him go after his first year if it did come to that?

I am really worried about it - he knows our worries and has offered to work for the same wage as he is now (I wouldnt do that, I dont want to break any laws)

I would really appreciate any advice.

Savvy_Sue

Would it help if he did some (more) college training, and if he did that would it change the sums at all? eg if he did a day at college and 3 days with you, would you get enough work out of him at a sufficiently low cost to make it worthwhile for both parties.

Are there actual learning difficulties there, do you think? If so, there might be more support available for you and him, although I can't immediately think where you'd access it.

My personal preference would be likely to be to get shot, but in a good way if possible, unless you are seeing definite progress.

Lifeisbutadream

Thanks SS. We still have to pay him whether he is at college or not, so that wouldnt make a difference.

I am not sure about the learning difficulties - he is very keen, but OH can tell him something 20 times and it doesnt seem to go in - I have no idea why..

It took him over 4 years to find someone to take him on, so I really do want to help him if I can, but obviously we are not running a charity!

McKneff

What really kind people you are. Have you thought about having a word with the CITB they deal with apprenticeships and I'm sure they would give you some guidance. Cant find a link but you could google it.

My own personal thoughts are that i would wait until nearer September and then see how he has progressed and hopefully work for your company will have picked up by then.

All good deeds have a consequence.

Lifeisbutadream

Thank you - I havent asked the CITB yet as I dont want them to think that we are trying to get out of paying him what we should (I am very aware that it does look like that:o )

As we are OK at the moment, we can carry on as we are for now and hope that the business picks up soon.

The fact that this lad is so keen is working in his favour - it isnt as though he cant be bothered, I genuinly think he is trying his hardest, so it has to go in eventually!

Savvy_Sue

Lifeisbutadream wrote: »

I am not sure about the learning difficulties - he is very keen, but OH can tell him something 20 times and it doesnt seem to go in - I have no idea why.

Tricky ... may be worth asking if he had extra help at school, that may give you a clue. Given his age it's probably not appropriate to ask his mum, although if you ever have cause to talk to her she might say something!

Is he doing a college course at the moment? If he is, is it worth talking to the college and seeing if they have a view?

What I would be wondering is whether he is EVER going to get over this problem of things not going in, and whether it matters. If there are a number of repetitive jobs which he'll be able to do competently gain and again and again, then it might be more worthwhile hanging on to him. If every job is that bit different, and he's going to have to adapt techniques and approaches every time, or ever on his own initiative, you do have to wonder if he'll ever be OK with that.

But if he hasn't had a LD recognised, or wants to move on from that label and therefore hasn't told you, or doesn't see there is a problem, it could be hard to get help with it, yet there might be help available which could ... well ... help.

Honestly, I don't know if either Remploy or the Shaw Trust could give you any advice, but it might be worth asking them.

elvis1

Lifeisjustadream, is there not government funding to help with taking on apprentices as there is a big drive at the moment to get companies to take apprentices on and they help with paying there wages. Have a look on some government sites and it should come up with something, try the 'Learning & Skills Councils' site.

As for your apprentices being told a number of times of how to do thing, I dont mean to be rude but could it be the way you are showing them that it is making it harder as sometimes people can ask me to do something and I dont have a clue what they are talking about but if they tell me another way it is easier to understand and I can then do it.

Savvy_Sue

elvis1 wrote: »

As for your apprentices being told a number of times of how to do thing, I dont mean to be rude but could it be the way you are showing them that it is making it harder as sometimes people can ask me to do something and I dont have a clue what they are talking about but if they tell me another way it is easier to understand and I can then do it.

that was another point I thought of making at some point.

It might be worth asking if this lad did any 'work' to work out his preferred learning style while he was at school - it may have become fashionable after he left, but my boys have all had it inflicted on them. And I can see some value to it.

But the only example I can give is that I have to 'see' a foreign word written down before I can 'hear' it. Once I've seen it written down I can hear it, even if it bears no resemblance to its spelling. And it's no use giving me verbal directions, they will not go in: I have to see a map. Even then it's a bit hit and miss. Once I've driven a route a few times I am fine, however.

Other people find that they have to do something with their hands before a fact sinks in.

Your apprentice might need to be shown something, then pretty much have his hand held while he does it: telling him, even while showing him, may not be enough for the information to go in, and just telling him may be no use at all.

Of course your DH may already have done this and still feel that it's not sinking in! In which case I have no further advice.

Lifeisbutadream

elvis1 wrote: »

Lifeisjustadream, is there not government funding to help with taking on apprentices as there is a big drive at the moment to get companies to take apprentices on and they help with paying there wages. Have a look on some government sites and it should come up with something, try the 'Learning & Skills Councils' site.

As for your apprentices being told a number of times of how to do thing, I dont mean to be rude but could it be the way you are showing them that it is making it harder as sometimes people can ask me to do something and I dont have a clue what they are talking about but if they tell me another way it is easier to understand and I can then do it.

Thank you - we do get funding, but it isnt very much - it doesnt cover the outgoings at the moment, so it definately wont when we have to pay more.

I agree with what you are saying re the way he is being told - I am not teaching him, my OH is, but he is very patient with him, I have also witnessed him being shown something, him doing it, then seemingly forgetting it and doing it wrong half an hour leter. OH doesnt get annoyed with him, he just goes through it all again, but it can probably get quite trying!

Lifeisbutadream

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

that was another point I thought of making at some point.

It might be worth asking if this lad did any 'work' to work out his preferred learning style while he was at school - it may have become fashionable after he left, but my boys have all had it inflicted on them. And I can see some value to it.

But the only example I can give is that I have to 'see' a foreign word written down before I can 'hear' it. Once I've seen it written down I can hear it, even if it bears no resemblance to its spelling. And it's no use giving me verbal directions, they will not go in: I have to see a map. Even then it's a bit hit and miss. Once I've driven a route a few times I am fine, however.

Other people find that they have to do something with their hands before a fact sinks in.

Your apprentice might need to be shown something, then pretty much have his hand held while he does it: telling him, even while showing him, may not be enough for the information to go in, and just telling him may be no use at all.

Of course your DH may already have done this and still feel that it's not sinking in! In which case I have no further advice.

I have found out over th eweekend that he is dislexic (sp?) - I have no idea whether this has any bearing on how he learns, but it has made us think.

OH is very patient with him anyway, so it might just mean that he needs a little bit longer to learn..

Zazen999

Life is but a dream....

Can I just confirm that you are getting your CITB grant?

Also, you can claim other grants from them...which might assist in helping to make end meet. I help construction companies for a living, so i can help you to get more money if you are interested.

PM me if so.