Orange Lose Court Battle Over Bad Signal.

Intasun32

I had the same problem as this some years ago with o2, hence my interest in this article. At home and about a mile radius from my home I had no signal, or a very weak one (I live on the outskirts of London so hardly the back of beyond). I had just left 3 and had no problems with their signal. O2 advised me that in my area I have a strong signal so it must be a problem with my sim card, which I had to exchange, without any improvement. Next they told me it must be my handset, a Nokia N82, which much to my surprise they immediately exchanged, again no improvement of signal. When I contacted them I was told that as it was now outside the 28 days cancellation period (as it was then) there was nothing they could do. They refused to answer my letters but I was told by one of the advisors to check the contract wording. I would find that it states that the network,o2, is under no obligation to provide you with a strong signal, or words to that effect. Even now on my T-Mobile contract there is a similar clause, fortunately I have no signal problems with them.
This a step in the right direction for the consumer, a small step but we have to start somewhere.

:j

Jon_01

The other problem, of course, is that everyone wants full signal 24/7. But as soon as any of the networks want to put up a new mast there are objections from the world and his wife, no one wants a mast anywhere near them.
You can't have it both way...

diamonds

as I have said it takes one case on anything to set a standard - the UK law system is built on this

"sets a precident but the next count court judge may take the networks side"

thats highly doubtful in the same NEW contract NO signal CANT CANCEL scenario

diamonds

Jon_01 wrote: »

But you have 7 days to test it in your home. If it doesn't work during that time why keep it ?
If there was a get out clause it would be abused, the networks can't send someone round to your hose to test it.
And what about what happened to me. They built a block of flats at the end of my road (between my house and the mast) and my signal just about vanished, is that the networks fault ? and should they lose out because of it ?

Jon01 that does not apply to Orange ( Retail ) shops, you go on a coverage checker Orange have available & they say yes & your locked in, 7 days is Orange's internet/telesales orders only via Distance Selling Regulations.

As for your scenario, no thats not your telco's fault & you were provided a signal @ home/billing address & external factors have eradicated signal so you have to complete the contract which is fair IF there is no issue with your nearest mast/base station, however it is quite different to walk out a Orange shop & have no coverage when Orange ( or any other mobile telco ) say you do have coverage at said address & when you dont expect you to see the obligation of the contract term out with no service provided....

I have never bought from a Orange shop - poor staff, poor training, less value than direct internet/telesales plans, " call 150 " even to Orange Retail customers - ie...no help from store you purchased from :eek:, no protection from 7 days & if you lose your phone you cant get a replacement sim card by popping into a Orange shop !

Orange Retail is a joke.....

EXAMPLE:

ME: What's this " Unique " feature written next to the Nokia 6301 on the info stand next to it on the wall, it just looks to me like a normal Nokia 6300 ?


SALES assistant: I dont know hold on a MIN till I ask someone


20 mins/5 staff/ 1 assistant manager/ 2 store managers/1 call to area manager


SALES assistant: im sorry for your wait, to be honest none of us are sure, *we think* you can use wifi to surf the internet while the 6301 is sitting in the charging dock provided


ANSWERS/CONCLUSION:

So it has to be sitting in its desktop charger to be able to use wifi - INCORRECT ! wifi is about wireless

Nokia 6301 supports internet over wifi - INCORRECT ! it supports using wifi as a way to connect to Orange where no/poor mobile signal exists


Unique * we think * - INCORRECT ! the technology is UMA the product name @ Orange is Unique - Unique supports using wifi as a way to connect to Orange where no/poor mobile signal exists

Having knew all the answers it was quite fun to watch so many Orange Retail staff & management get into an absolute FLAP & STILL give incorrect information for the little information they did give - such accurate information may bag them a sale with another customer who was given correct concise information to make a informed decision.....

Jon_01

diamonds wrote: »

As for your scenario, no thats not your telco's fault & you were provided a signal @ home/billing address & external factors have eradicated signal so you have to complete the contract which is fair IF there is no issue with your nearest mast/base station, however it is quite different to walk out a Orange shop & have no coverage when Orange ( or any other mobile telco ) say you do have coverage at said address & when you dont expect you to see the obligation of the contract term out with no service provided....

So who has the responsibility to tell the network ?
The builders won't, the council won't. Hows anyone suppoed to know the impact of a new building on reception ?
I'm sure you'll agree that the networks can't test coverage at every address all the time. The coverage maps show what the range of each tower should be, but there are numerous reasons why you won't get any.
I'm not defending the current system, but it's impossible for any network to know 100% if you're going to get a signal (which is why the T&C's say what they do).

If you give people the get out that if they have no signal they can return their phone it will be abused. People will go from store to store getting free phones for a few weeks and then talking them back. All the networks will end up with a mountain of used phones and the result will be higher charges for everyone else. . .

xycom1

MRC wrote: »

I dont really understand this TBH. Why didnt he return the handset and cancel his contract within the 7-14 days allowed?
I think he got lucky.

Exactly, without knowing when he tried to cancel, more information on the deal he was in, where he bought the phone, what reasons the network used to refuse cancellation, etc. then it's difficult to tell whether this case is a genuine 'success' or breakthrough.

Pound

Did Orange actually send a lawyer to contest the claim in court? I bet Orange just didn't bother turning up at court like a lot of big companies do and the claimant won by default. In which case it doesn't really make a statement about anything other than perhaps Orange's customer service skills (or lack of).

Buzby

When I read this, I just KNEW it was a story from the Daily Mail.

From what I've been able to discover, Orange did not defend the action, and there is every chance it will be recalled and heard again with proper representation. For a Small Claims court to be able to overturn contract law is, ludicrous and doesn't deserve to stand - even though it most certainly doesn't serve as a precedent.

What's next? I can't get a decent Freeview signal so I'm suing the BBC for the cost of my telly AND licence?

The mind boggles.

Pound

Buzby wrote: »

there is every chance it will be recalled and heard again with proper representation.

No it won't.

1. It would cost Orange much more money in legal fees to defend against the claim than the contract is worth. How much does a solicitor charge compares to how much this customer is paying?
2. One customer is a drop in the ocean.
3. If they do lose when they defend their case then it will encourage many other people to do the same. They're not going to gamble hundreds of thousands of pounds of profit just for one contract.

This is exactly the kind of thing that was done with the bank charge claims. The banks just didn't show up at court.

Buzby

The banks were in a totally different position. The Networks have contracts in place that SPECIFICALLY exclude (a) network coverage guarantees and (2) service levels.

The customer agreed to the contract, therefore complaining subsequently that there was no signal was already addressed within the contract. If Orange do nothing, there is a real danger that the networks will be put in the position that their contracts far from being 'legally binding' will be little more than a consumer incumbrance. They'll fight tooth and nail to prevent this, as it will provide a loophole to allow anyone to cite coverage issues to walk away from a contract.