Afprb 2009

System

Just spoke to a colleague who had heard from the mouth of one of the top brass whilst he was giving a presentation that the announcement would be made later this year :eek: this could be a misunderstanding of course and I also believe information was released yesterday annoucning why and when but I havent see this

whothrewthat_2

I don't think anyone has proposed a £50K salary at all. We're not asking for a huge amount, just a payrise that is realistic to ensure that we maintain a standard of living that is commensurate with the demands placed on us.

So what do we pay the Senior Ranks? their pay has to be higher than the Juniors. Where is the money going to come from?

Again I don't agree with this point, but if you stop and look at the level of responsbility in line with the pay awarded and then compare that to the outside world, then its clear that there is a significant deficit. I'm not advocating a pay increase but I think it is important to bear this point in mind.

There isn't a Nation on Earth who pays it's armed forces enough to justify the sacrifice, but that's how it is unfortunately.

True, but surely it is important to recognise the sacrafice made by ensuring that those who are putting themselve directly in harms way receive a fair package. As you may be aware there was a report on the news that stated that most of the families service accommodation we are expected to live in is in such a poor state it is actually damaging people's health. There is no money to address this issue either, how much are we suppose to shoulder and still do our job?

The majority of the Nation have the upmost respect for the tours in Operational Theatre's....... but we aint gonna make you millionnaires because of it.

We don't expect to be millionaires, that's not what we signed on for.

Pay in the Forces is not an issue, of course everyone wants more, it would be great, but it isn't realistic.

That's a really interesting point, shame no one said that to the government when they were rubber stamping Fred Godwin's pension. It's funny how that point has been conveniently forgotton.

People leave because they spend too much time away from home, conditions of service, poor support networks etc... Pay is seldom a reason to leave.

I have friends who would disagree with you and are now earning twice the amount they did in the forces with less responsbility.

The Governemnt could award a 0% pay award but there would be no huge uprising. Of course there would be complaining but it wouldnt spell the end of our forces

I think you underestimate the impact this could have. If 0% is awarded, then over the long term this will impact on retention rates. To go from 0% back to a reasonable level will take a very long time and in the meantime this will have a huge impact on morale in the forces.

Cat695

Apples2 wrote: »

It's the servicemen on this thread who are coming across as unrealistic.

What is your proposal?? We pay all Junior ranks (the bulk of those fighting) £50K a year??

So what do we pay the Senior Ranks? their pay has to be higher than the Juniors. Where is the money going to come from?

There isn't a Nation on Earth who pays it's armed forces enough to justify the sacrifice, but that's how it is unfortunately.

The majority of the Nation have the upmost respect for the tours in Operational Theatre's....... but we aint gonna make you millionnaires because of it.

Pay in the Forces is not an issue, of course everyone wants more, it would be great, but it isn't realistic.

People leave because they spend too much time away from home, conditions of service, poor support networks etc... Pay is seldom a reason to leave.

The Governemnt could award a 0% pay award but there would be no huge uprising. Of course there would be complaining but it wouldnt spell the end of our forces.

Your missing the point

As whothrewthat pointed out we get tasked to do the jobs no one else wants (don't forget foot and mouth)

But its also the rise in our food and accom every year, as of next month i will be paying £100 more for my room( because I now have a larger wardrobe), thats just for my room and I've yet to see the rise in food (my unit STILL isn't on pay as you dine so I have to pay it).

I'm not after pop start wages (I already consider myself to be on a very good wage) but what I don't agree with is make the forces suffer, because at the end of the day there is NOTHING we can do about it. Remember we cannot go on strike we hhave no union....as you pointed out all we can do is sign off, and you would have to be very stupid to leave the Forces in this climate.

Apples2

Cat695 wrote: »

Yyou would have to be very stupid to leave the Forces in this climate.

I completely agree with this.

Whats coming across in this thread is entirely at odds with this comment though.

There is a lot of shouting "poor us, no-one cares about us".

That simply isn't the case at all. It seems those within the forces do not comprehend the general feeling of appreciation from those outside.

Service accomodation has been woeful for years, it is getting better...slowly.

The fees associated with Single Living I agree are not worth the increases, but they could reduce those fees as opposed to increasing everyones pay (because it would take less from the pot)

Personnally I have never bought into the Married Quarter mentality. Dragging family into the place of work makes me cringe.
The snootyness of the neighbours adopting their own rank structure due to the rate their partner holds.
Married Quarters might be bad, but they dont cost much.

There is always the option of renting in the private sector near the place of work.

I would MUCH rather just buy a house and travel. A strain on the family but hey! it is the forces.:cool:

I would take with a pinch of salt, claims from leavers who say they have doubled their wage with less responsibility. Leaving after a career reaching SNCO, you will be VERY lucky to receive the same pay on leaving and definitely an exception.

I agree about the hassle of Foot & Mouth, Fire Service strike cover etc. but unfortunately the Forces are the Nations workforce.
This is one of the things I am trying to convey about why people leave.

I'm sure people would have been happy to cover the disease and fight fires if they could have some leave afterwards.
In reality people were returning from overseas tours, going straight into burning sheep away from home, then going abroad for the next tour with no leave. Hence my point about conditions of service....not pay.

As for Sir Freds Pension...... 2 wrongs don't make a right.

paulmapp8306

I cant actually believe Im reading all this bickering !!!

Im Serving forces, and dont think Im badly paid (though thats more because of the x factor than the basic pay), and Im not looking for a hugh pay rise.

I do however expect something - and more importantly with 4 days to go, to know what it is going to be.

My rent, single food charges etc WILL go up and the cost of living (rather than just inflation) has gone up a LOTin the last year. I dont expect to be worse off next week!!

That said Im looking for 2-2.5%. More and Ill consider myself to be luck - less and Ill be a bit peaved, but keep plodding on. If its 0% I will seriously have to look at leaving !!!

I agree that the economy is what it is and were all in the S##t - however the forces (and most public services come to that) did not get big rises when times were good - like many private sector personel - and should not have to take such a big hit now. Especially as the government can afford millions to bale out banks etc whos top people are NOT taking cuts - are still getting HUGH payoffs and Bonuses. The scandels on MPs expenses etc doesnt help at this time either (dont get me stared on how far WE have to travel from our owned homes before getting anything - and where they house us when we do have to be away from our properties !!).

Also many whose wages are/have gone down in the private sector have taken a cut in working hours (whether they like that or not) but ours arnt going to go down. If anything they'll go up with the pace of opperations.

As I stated - Ill get what I get. As long is its not nothing Ill trudge along as always - BUT Id appreciate the common curtesy from our government to actually inform me what I will be paid as of next week!!!

paulmapp8306

Apples2 wrote: »

I would take with a pinch of salt, claims from leavers who say they have doubled their wage with less responsibility. Leaving after a career reaching SNCO, you will be VERY lucky to receive the same pay on leaving and definitely an exception.

Not sure there. Depends on trade, Quals etc. It also depends on whether your looking at take home pay, or basic (not inc x factor).

I am a SNCO and have been offered 2 jobs in the last 6 months paying £10k + more than Im on now. BUT it suffer leaving with 2 years to go from a pension POV.

Also 4 SNCOs in my Section have left in the last year. 3 re better paid now than they were - the other is on about the same but with less responsability and less hours.

tartanterra

Apples2 wrote: »

I would take with a pinch of salt, claims from leavers who say they have doubled their wage with less responsibility. Leaving after a career reaching SNCO, you will be VERY lucky to receive the same pay on leaving and definitely an exception.

The contractors on my base are currently earning £19 an hour as a fitter and £22 an hour as a supervisor.

We currently have people leaving the Service in droves, then pitching up the next day as contractors, doing no duties, no deployments, no weekend work.

It is extremely hard to convince my Juniors to remain in the Service, when they can cross the road to the contractors, double their wages, work less hours and spend more time at home with their families.

tartanterra

NewbieMoneySaver** wrote: »

Does anyone know of any news on this as we get the payrise/nothing next week?

The completed Armed Forces Pay Review Body report was submitted to the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Defence on the 29th of January.
At the moment, they are refusing to release it, for reasons currently unknown.

This means that it may be announced after the 1st of April, when the rise (if any!) is already visible on JPA.

The only light at the end of the tunnel is that the Government have never refused to follow the reccommendations of the (independent) AFPRB.

Mind you........:rolleyes:
Theres always a first time for everything........:eek:

mannews

wow, I came into this thread to find out what the pay rise was gonna be......

NewbieMoneySaver**

It's very interesting to ask the question then have so many of you have a little argument over this case.

I also agree with the state of the force housing/ Base accom and also the problems with working away. Like previously posted. Why are the forces the fall guys, measly pay rises when everyone was playing happy/stupid and now things are getting bad we are taking a hit again.

Why can we not be rewarded for the continuous operations throughout the world and the constant problems that we face.