Helicopter firm jobs being lost in Aberdeen

dealsearcher

BBC reporting the entire tail of the helicopter fell off either before or after landing. So definitely tail rotor failure - in fact tail rotor not attached! Although helicopters are mechanically complicated beasts so finding out cause and effect will be the problem for the investigators.

The tail rotor fell off a Pelita Air Service Puma (Indonesia) back in the 80's and the crew managed to ditch it successfully. The prevailing wisdom was that it should have been unsurvivable. The tail rotor and tail rotor gearbox are heavy and at the end of a long moment arm. In theory the c. of g. would be so far forward it should have been uncontrollable.

The tail rotor failed on a Bristows Tiger (Super Puma) back in the 80's as well. That was caused by part of the tail boom fairing coming off in the cruise and hitting the tail rotor. The crew only realised they had a problem when they slowed down on approach to Dyce (Aberdeen) and the helicopter suddenly flipped onto its side and fell from 90 feet. In the cruise the tail rotor has little pitch on the blades and is only needed as the helicopter slows down and collective pitch is applied to the main rotor blades. Everyone got out of that as well, although battered and bruised.

In the present instance everyone survived. This would largely be due to the excellent training received by both the flight crew and the passengers and because they would all be wearing dry suits. Uncomfortable though they are when you are flying multiple sectors in warm weather I expect the crew were glad they had them on this occasion!

mitchaa

I'm not saying a word, but i can pretty much say that the tailboom seperated from the main structure on impact with the water.

It's wise to stop speculating otherwise we will soon be at the stage of it was downed by a stray Afghan missile

dealsearcher

mitchaa wrote: »

I'm not saying a word, but i can pretty much say that the tailboom seperated from the main structure on impact with the water.

It's wise to stop speculating otherwise we will soon be at the stage of it was downed by a stray Afghan missile

So not speculating eh? mitchaa?

If it did come off on impact the tailboom must have been weakened before it ditched. Helicopters have ditched before without the tailboom coming off.

mitchaa

dealsearcher wrote: »

So not speculating eh? mitchaa?

If it did come off on impact the tailboom must have been weakened before it ditched. Helicopters have ditched before without the tailboom coming off.

Think about the stress of the tail going under and then a split second later the main cabin hitting the water and then flotation devices expanding.

Im sure you'll know helicopters dont generally tend to land nose first hence why most of them have as what are known as hockey sticks

North sea is not a flat surface either, quite choppy so tail will have been submerged for a moment.

I cant say much more than that as the AAIB are in the process of doing their business, bond wont release anything until everyone has been interviewed and the news haven't got hold of any statements.

A tail GB/blade failure would not snap off the tailboom mid air, if that had happened there would have been 18 fatalities as they would have hit the water at speed and the engines and GB would have come down and crushed them on impact.

A ditching tells you that it was controlled

I have not speculated anything, it may or may not be a tail failure, i'm sure you'll find out soon enough though.

The CHC crash in Dec 2006 off the coast of Morecambe was pilot error for example, that too hit the water.

Honestly i've heard rumour mill all day, the internet has a strong presence of spreading rumours. I.e an ex NS pilot over on MSE said it was definitely tail related, that spreads and soon it was tail related to tens of thousands of readers.

You'll find out soon enough

dealsearcher

mitchaa wrote: »

Im sure you'll know helicopters dont generally tend to land nose first hence why most of them have as what are known as hockey sticks

North sea is not a flat surface either, quite choppy so tail will have been submerged for a moment.

A tail GB/blade failure would not snap off the tailboom mid air, if that had happened there would have been 18 fatalities as they would have hit the water at speed and the engines and GB would have come down and crushed them on impact.

Hockey sticks? Never heard that one.

Many ditchings in choppy seas have not resulted in the tail breaking off. Generally helicopters turn over (as this one now has) because all of the weight (engine, gearbox) are high up.

A tail rotor gearbox seizure most certainly could snap off the tail in the air, the forces are very large. It has already happened to a Pelita Air Service Puma in the 80's as my previous post states.

Not sure why you are offended by informed opinion. You may have heard lots of rumours but I don't think you are a helicopter pilot. I am not one anymore but I spent some 9 years flying the S61 and Puma so I do know something about them. I moved on to fixed wing in the late eighties. Probably before your time.

mitchaa

dealsearcher wrote: »

Hockey sticks? Never heard that one.

Many ditchings in choppy seas have not resulted in the tail breaking off. Generally helicopters turn over (as this one now has) because all of the weight (engine, gearbox) are high up.

A tail rotor gearbox seizure most certainly could snap off the tail in the air, the forces are very large. It has already happened to a Pelita Air Service Puma in the 80's as my previous post states.

Not sure why you are offended by informed opinion. You may have heard lots of rumours but I don't think you are a helicopter pilot. I am not one anymore but I spent some 9 years flying the S61 and Puma so I do know something about them. I moved on to fixed wing in the late eighties. Probably before your time.

Offended I just dont think you should be spreading rumours based on ill informed opinion.

Exactly, you are a pilot, i am an engineer. I think i know a bit more about airframes and transmissions than you do, as you will know more about flying than i do:rolleyes: If the tailboom had broken off mid air, and the main cabin had plunged into the sea from height there would be 18 fatalites. It certainly would not have been a controlled ditching, it would have been violent.

''Hockey stick'' the 'protection' bottom end of aft of the tailboom.

Like i said before, im on the inside, you appear unless you know the pilots involved on the outside

I'll say no more on the matter until the AAIB have dont their bit. You categorically stated that it was definite tail rotor failure, are you a gambling man, would you put your house on it?

Stop speculating, you would be shot over on PPrune especially as an ex pilot.

Edit..6th paragraph in article, just stating the obvious i think..

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/other/display.var.2490470.0.Ditched_helicopter_passengers_and_crew_reunited_with_families.php

Pretty much sums up my statement above

dopester

More jobs going at a different firm sadly.

Jobs to go at helicopter company

A leading helicopter company is set to shed jobs due to a decline in demand for its services in the oil and gas industry.

Bristow Helicopters employs about 500 people in Aberdeen, as well as 100 in Redhill in Surrey and 240 in Norway.

The company said management salaries had been frozen, and it was now consulting with unions on redundancies.

Bristow said it would attempt to "minimize the number of compulsory redundancies".

more... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7959864.stm

dopester

mitchaa wrote: »

Shall i set the record straight on this 1 I heard of this only this morning, and no i do not work for Heli1, it did come as a little shock though i must admit.

There are 3 helicopter companies in Aberdeen, CHC (Worlds biggest) Bristows and Bond. All 3 of these companies are undermanned and are all IMO safe from this recession. Offshore workers need to get out to the oil platforms and the only way is by helicopter. The companies also do coastguard Search and Rescue and EMS (Emergency services) and there is enough work and contracts to share between the 3 companies, there always has been. These 3 bases are front line day to day helicopter bases, heli1 is not, they do not fly anyone anywhere.

Heli1...The company in this article is an overhaul company, this means they do deep servicing for CHC. They do not provide a service as such to the offshore companies and workers, they are employed by the customer i.e CHC. When the helicopters from CHC for example come to X amount of flying hours they need to be taken off line for weeks/months to undergo major servicing work. There are a few of these bases around the world and the main heli1 base is in Stavanger (Norway) so helicopters from CHC that need deep servicing work will now be done in Stavanger.

So this makes no difference to me. What i suspect will happen is all the engineers from Heli 1 will either A) be offered their jobs in Stavanger, or Disperse between the 3 companies who are all currently short manned.

The only effect i can see this having on myself is that i may not get as much OT as we will have more staff to do the work. I never done much anyway, 2-3hrs pw.

Hope you're right then. Hopefully they can limit the job losses to the non-skilled side of their operations, and voluntary redundancies.

mitchaa

dopester wrote: »

More jobs going at a different firm sadly.

more... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7959864.stm

Engineering and aircrew are only a small portion of the overall staff in these companies, i heard about this earlier and it appears that they will be shedding support staff, stores persons, catering staff and non essential management, i.e managers that have managers that have managers that have managers.

There has been talk of pay freezes in my company but so many are protected by the union that this has been a no go.

donaldtramp

(Edit: posted after you Mitch!)
Any word Mitch?
I know you said you thought the chopper companies were undermanned but surely this latest story must make you think.

Nobody is safe in the Oil industry just now. I personally 3 mates who are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs. can't land a job at all just now. No-one is hiring. I know that twitchy feeling as well!