Joint agency - two different stories... advice please!

gelato_cat

Hi all

BF and I are looking for a house in SW London where nothing is cheap, so I'm sure some people will tell me I'm mad, but here goes.

We're looking for a two/three-bed Victorian house and on Saturday had our first few viewings. We liked two of the houses, one more than the other - it's bigger and cheaper (£425k). The agent said that the house has been on the market since September and started off at £460k, the price was reduced in November and the owner is thinking of doing up the kitchen (! I think she's getting a bit desperate). The kitchen could do with updating, but it's perfectly adequate. Bathroom new but not massive. The agent said the owner is from another country and is selling up to move back there.

Tonight we went to see a couple more agents, including the one which is jointly trying to sell our current favourite. We had already decided to try and get information out of him about the house but not let him take us to see it in case we got caught up in wrangles as to who introduced who to the house first and suchlike.

I asked him to tell us about the seller and he said that they were "buying on" (I asked what he meant, he said buying another house) and that they'd received an offer last week, but that it was LOW (that's how he said it, LOW). Obv wouldn't say just how LOW, but it must be sub-£400k. He said that since the offer had gone in, nothing had really happened (I can't remember whether he said it had been rejected and bf is now making it up as he goes along).

He was trying to get us to view the house but I said the fact that someone else was interested put me off (white lie) and managed not to make an appointment to view.

So here we have two different stories and I am not sure which one to believe. But, inevitably, this has now made us want the house more After that we went to a couple more agents and they didn't have much in the area we wanted, and it was all nearer £500k, which we can afford but don't really want to spend.

We are going to see a couple more houses tomorrow night so will see how it goes, but they're more expensive, a bit further away from the action and don't seem to be as big. There doesn't seem to be much more stock coming onto the market, and the stuff that is there seems to have been on the market since last year.

So, what should we do about this house? I know a surefire way of getting it is to offer the asking price, but before we found out about this offer (which may or may not exist) I was going to go in at £380k and negotiate up to about £400k. This seemed sensible to me as they obv want to go back to their home country and are trying to improve the house to sell it. However as an FTB I'm not too sure now (and bf isn't much help as he's a STB but paid asking price for the flat he's just sold). I want to make an embarrassing offer, but I don't want them to think I'm taking the p*** and refuse to take me seriously/negotiate with me.

We want to view the house for a second time on Saturday, but I'm not sure how to strike a balance between showing we're serious and interested but not too keen, as we don't want to be taken advantage of!

If it is true that the seller received a low offer a week ago which neither side has negotiated since then, do you think we still have a look-in or is it inevitable that we'll be played off against the other bidders? What do you reckon is the seller's thought process?

Suze

Doozergirl

Ignore the EAS and don't think about other offers. If it was rejected and no counter offer came back then that buyer is not interested. It is unlikely that a vendor would ask an EA to go back to a previous bidder unless they were actually interested in their offer. Likewise it's unlikely that even if they were to go back to previous bidders that they would up their offer considering they were prepared to walk away previously.

You have to go in without letting things like hearsay affect you.

QTPie

Go do your second viewing, make sure you still love the place (this will be your chance to look beyond the initial impressions, ask hard questions, take measurements etc... REALLY work out whether it is the property for you).

Agreed with Doozergirl: work out what you want to offer (assuming you still do after the 2nd viewing) and go from there. I am sure that EAs say all kinds of things and make all kinds of lies - they can't be trusted. If you make an offer of £380k and it is rejected, then either up the offer or ask for a counter offer.

Good luck
QT

SouthCoast

Check out Property-Bee as it should tell you the asking price history.

EA's never lie!

gelato_cat

Thanks DG and QT - I'm glad you were both able to understand my ramblings!!!

Thinking about it, if a mate had come to me with the same story, I'd be telling her to offer what she was going to offer and take it from there. And there was cold, hard Suze determined not to get too attached to a property :P

You have def cleared something else up for me, as I wasn't sure what to do if my offer was rejected outright - I wasn't sure if you could still negotiate if the vendor didn't put down a counteroffer. Now I know that it's OK for me to ask for one if it's not offered

We will ask for a second viewing on Saturday, for at least 45 minutes. Might prepare a list of questions beforehand and give them to the agent - she's been pretty good so far with passing questions and answers back and forth.

Suze

gelato_cat

Thanks - already have. Only two asking prices - initial (from September last year) was £460k, reduced to £425k in November last year. I want to go in at 10% below - approx £380k. It looks like they might be holding out but I'm willing to negotiate as we have a mortgage AIP to more than cover the asking price, although obv don't want to have to use all of it!

Suze

SouthCoast wrote: »

Check out Property-Bee as it should tell you the asking price history.

EA's never lie!

QTPie

Suzey wrote: »

Thinking about it, if a mate had come to me with the same story, I'd be telling her to offer what she was going to offer and take it from there. And there was cold, hard Suze determined not to get too attached to a property :P

How true is that! It is SOOOO much easier to give advice when it is someone else buying... Just you wait (we are currently under offer and hoping to move out to rented accomodation), when we come to seriously looking to buy, I will a pile of uncertain mush asking exactly the same questions...

Suzey wrote: »

You have def cleared something else up for me, as I wasn't sure what to do if my offer was rejected outright - I wasn't sure if you could still negotiate if the vendor didn't put down a counteroffer. Now I know that it's OK for me to ask for one if it's not offered

I think you should do... if you are prepared to negotiate (some people just make one "first and final offer"), but they don't make a counter offer, then ask for one... say "ok, so they rejected our offer... what are they prepared to accept", that at least gives you a figure to work with...

Suzey wrote: »

We will ask for a second viewing on Saturday, for at least 45 minutes. Might prepare a list of questions beforehand and give them to the agent - she's been pretty good so far with passing questions and answers back and forth.

DEFINITELY! Have a GOOD think about the questions you want to ask before your second viewing - make the most of it

Let us know what happens
QT

gelato_cat

QTPie wrote: »

How true is that! It is SOOOO much easier to give advice when it is someone else buying... Just you wait (we are currently under offer and hoping to move out to rented accomodation), when we come to seriously looking to buy, I will a pile of uncertain mush asking exactly the same questions...

It's true, you do take leave of your senses a bit! We are under offer on bf's flat too, so potentially have a double dose of stress coming. But we have sold to a FTB who seems to want to get on with it (however I can't believe he only viewed the place once!) and I think I believe the first EA in that our potential vendor wants to move back home, so with any luck it will be a short chain.

QTPie wrote: »

I think you should do... if you are prepared to negotiate (some people just make one "first and final offer"), but they don't make a counter offer, then ask for one... say "ok, so they rejected our offer... what are they prepared to accept", that at least gives you a figure to work with...

I am prepared to negotiate... before we started looking, I thought I was going to go first and final offer, but now I've seen we can buy something at below our AIP mortgage I'm willing to bargain a bit.

Funny thing is that my bf isn't good at negotiating - I'm better, but he's dealt with the agents thus far so it might look a bit funny if I take over when it comes to talking money! Having said that, I was thinking of putting our first offer in writing anyway - laying it all out so the vendor can see we're offering 90% and have one person behind us in the chain etc and the reasons why we have chosen to offer that amount. If we go the written route with the first one, should we continue with subsequent ones or just do them verbally? or do them verbally and follow up with a fax? Does the agent actually show them the letter anyway, or do they just ring them and read out the figure?

One thing I have been surprised about is that the agents don't give anything away with regard to the level of other offers - I've been reading the forums for a while, and people say "they rejected an offer of X six months ago" and now I'm wondering how you get that information, cos no agent wants to divulge anything like that to us!

QTPie wrote: »

DEFINITELY! Have a GOOD think about the questions you want to ask before your second viewing - make the most of it

Let us know what happens
QT

Will do! Thanks for the encouragement!

Suze

gelato_cat

Hi all

Got an update for you - and was also wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my last post please?

We went to a second viewing of this house and another on Saturday. As the EA had to be somewhere else partway through, he only accompanied us to the first house and the owner of the second house took us round her place.

We both really like it still and are poised to offer.

While we were there, I asked her hubby what level of interest they'd had. He said they had about four viewings a week but he doesn't think they're serious buyers. I asked if they'd had any offers - he said they'd had two, but that they were low.

House is up at £425k (since last November, started off at £460k in September) and we're guessing that offering below £400k will be rejected. So we're going to offer £410k. I don't feel comfortable with the margin (we're offering 95%!) but it's priced lower than smaller properties we've seen, we really like it and they're chain-free (as it turns out the second EA was not accurate in what he told us after all - they are moving abroad).

I was initially going to offer 10% off - £390k - but having talked to her, I don't think she'll go for it. The house has had a lot of improvements made to it since we saw it a week ago - new hob, oven, worktop and floor in the kitchen, replastering in the entrance, retiling in the shower - because she is now worried she won't be able to sell and will need to rent it out.

I've thought about asking her to include some F&F (and she seems quite genuine, I think she probably would as she really just wants shot of the place now) and have started another thread on this.

Any thoughts? I still think it might be worth taking a punt at £390k and negotiating up, but my bf won't go for it. If anyone reckons we should go for the lower offer I'm willing to take over liaison with the EA... I'm just worried that 95% below doesn't give us much room for negotiation and it's more psychological than anything - I don't want to pay full asking!

TIA

Suze

Madmel

I know nothing about the area but it sounds to me like your vendor wants to get at least £400k for their house. If you offer less than that, it may well be rejected out of hand. Whether it is worth that, I don't know.

How about giving them their £400k but coming in at less than the asking price by starting at something like £402,500? There is something in the human psyche that makes £400,000 seem a lot more than £399,995. You still than have scope to increase your offer if you feel it appropriate before getting to the asking price.

Doozergirl

Oh my! I didn't associate your previous thread with your fabulous avatar!

I was assuming for FTB on your other thread that we were talking sub 200k. Firstly, that oven is included on the sale or you throttle them! You definately throw a hissy fit if it isn't included on their F&F form.

The vendor is concerned that she can't sell, she is concerned that she will have to rent it out, she is concerned enough to spend money on it then you need to go in lower. 410 is a very reasonable offer. I think you need to go in a little lower than 400 and see if you can settle just over that amount. I actually think that 410 is an acheivable price, therefore you have to offer lower.

Do have a look at stolt's thread recently because his vendor's were pretty strong IMO because he played it exactly right IMO - the vendors were not budging much but he really showed himself to be strong and did push them hard. My experience as a vendor with FTBs (which is why I want you to be different!) has been that they are very eager and offer and reoffer too quickly and too near to asking price. Every vendor has concerns as well, no one has the upper hand, you just have to find their best price and that takes time as their best price will generally adjust a little bit downwards if you keep negotiating rather then relenting.