Cancelled Orange contract, billed 3 months later!

GrammarGirl

Hi all, just wanting some advice to pass on to my boyfriend.

He was with Orange until Nov 2008 when he decided he wanted an iPhone :rolleyes: . After moving to O2, he rang Orange to cancel his contract and the woman on the phone told him it would be easier to transfer his account to a PAYG sim rather than cancelling outright. He actually enquired if that was really all he had to do, and was told yes - we'll send you the sim, if you don't want to use it it's ok.

A month later (Dec 2008) he was charged for his Orange contract. Unfortunately, rather than contacting them to sort it, he just cancelled his DD and thought nothing of it.

Today he's received a bill for £70. After a conversation with Orange, they tell him his contract couldn't be cancelled as he didn't activate the PAYG sim!! This information was never passed on to him. They are refusing to waive the fee and are placing the blame with him entirely. He needs to pay the amount or it will be passed to a collections agency and we really don't want that to happen.

Just wondering if there's anyone in particular (a certain department perhaps?) we can contact, or anything we can say? Any advice gratefully received.

Thanks.

cmatt

hmmm - word of advice from me (as you helped - moi)

I got into a petty argument with o2 when I was a student (tee) and ended up owning £90... and it took MONTHS to resolve due to my piggish behavior.

GET an answer ASAP - but to me that sounds like a petty brush off AFAIK when they move to PAYG all they do is move the account number and this should not affect the expiration of the contract.

Jon_01

They may have not told you to activate the payg sim, but how were they suppoed to know you didn't want to stay on contract when you didn't?
Quite a few people call and say they want to move to payg as a ploy to get a better deal but then never use the sim, if Orange just transferred acc from contract to payg with the sim being activatd they'd be even complaints about the contarct sim stopping when they didn't want it to.

You can try going up the chain to a team leader or manager (week days better than weekends. there are sometimes only one tl or manager in a call centre at weekends). They can review the notes on the acc and the recording of the conversation and take it from there....

GrammarGirl

Thanks both for your help!

I think the problem is, my boyfriend rang up with all intentions of CANCELLING his contract, he was fully prepared to provide written confirmation of his cancellation request (we expected this as I have done this twice when switching providers and never had a problem), but the Orange representative told him specifically he didn't need to do anything else - according to her, by switching to PAYG the contract was cancelled. Obviously this isn't the case, and he has been misinformed.

He made it quite clear that he wanted to cancel his contract. His intention wasn't to try get a better deal, he didn't want or need the PAYG sim as he had his iPhone at this point. I think it's a case of miscommunication on Orange's behalf, so will get him to ask Orange to listen to the recording of the call and see what happens.

Any more help appreciated!

Jon_01

Indeed, by switching to PAYG would have cancelled his contract, but he didn't switch.
Even when the Dec bill came in when shouldn't have he still didn't do anything...
The person he spoke to, to get the sim wouldn't be doing anything else in the process. The sim would go out and a flag would go on the acc to notify the transfer dept to move his number from contact to payg when he called in to activate it.

As I said above, stacks of people call in saying they want to cancel for a number of reason, so do, some don't. But the network can't second guess them...

GrammarGirl

But someone should have made clear that the sim needed to be activated for the switch to be successful. Just as the network cannot second guess the customers, the customers cannot second guess the network and can only follow the instructions they are given!

Thanks for your help.

Jon_01

The argument Orange are going to put forward is going to be; They didn't know you still wanted to switch as he didn't activate the sim.
They continued to bill him (based on the payg sim not being activated) and he didn't query it therefore confirming he didn't want to switch...

You (or he if it's his acc) needs to call in, go up the chain to a team leader or higher. Explain what's happened and get them to review the acc. Make notes and don't lose your temper when the drones on the front line tell you there's nothing they can do.
Don't let them call you back, just stay on the line, that thretens to mess up their call stats, that'll motivate them to find someone for you.
Whoever you get through to, take their name and job tital and which call centre their in (staff at that level don't have phone numbers, yes I know that make no sense but its the odd way that phones work in the call centre). Get a date when they plan to call you back and see what happens...

GrammarGirl

Thanks very much for your advice. I've passed it all on and he'll be following it tomorrow - will keep this thread updated.

Thanks again!

diamonds

between Jon01 & the OP

Orange's decision to transfer to payg to end a contract by sending a payg sim is not foolproof, given NO full explanation of the procedure, I went to cancel a account early - agreed to the early termination cost for several months remaining, a action was placed on my account for in 30 days ( 30 days notive EVEN though I am paying to terminate contract early - Orange's computer systems !!! ) a payg sim to be sent to me, no further explanation was given....poor standard implemented by Orange, I know the contract to payg procedure with Orange & just ASWELL I do so, no explanation of ANYTHING, no " any questions ", no explanation I can take my Orange number to another network via a PAC instead of Orange payg or " would you like a PAC " to open the conversation, no information if I refuse a payg sim I lose my number on closure of account or that non payg sim use a/c contract remains open - absolute NOTHING

and to boot my " termination cost " was not correct - given I have a " non - loyalty " discount of £10 a month that was marketed retailed & T&C were £10 discount a month off monthly priceplan - Orange's computers could not calculate such and charged me the £10 more for every remaining month I was buying out of the contract than I was currently paying

All in Orange's managment of the company is to blame, staff follow what guidelines are issued to them and what the computer says " NO ", disconnections, billing, infact whatever internal dept staff usually follow Orange's guidelines which to say the least are as frustrating as 3 India's customer care's SCRIPTS

Ofcom really needs to implement a procedure for ending contracts ALL UK networks have to follow when a customer wants closure of a contract account :-


1) Inform customer of required notice of penalty free cancellation 30 days notice & 30 days notice to " mobile network " before contract completion date via text to account service & billing address.

2) Explanation of transference of current mobile number to another network or current networks payg service with FULL explanation of procedure to follow outcomes of both scenario's, 30 days before contract completion date via text to account service & billing address.


Of course such will never happen......Orange " extra bundles " expire on your final day of contract with NO notice to yourself - where as most networks carry them over until upgrade time - again BILLING INTEGRITY @ Orange get snowed under....probably a outsourced 3rd party @ Orange who rake it in no doubt, same company that designs Orange CSR software on 150 no doubt
aswell as Orange's OUTSOURCED website that is a mass of conflicting misinformation, so give staff the benefit of doubt & be thankful your employers procedures make your job so much easier than staff @ Orange



EXAMPLES ( Jon01 note most of these were reported to Exec Office 12 months ago, who seem to have NO power over Orange's website ! )


YOUR GROUP:

http://www1.orange.co.uk/service_plans/paymonthly/your_group_overview.html

" Your Group is not available on plans purchased over the web or phone, including web exclusive plans and Canary, Racoon, Dolphin and Panther direct plans "

REALLY ? ....when I have 3 ANIMAL plans - on YOUR GROUP...and all Orange do on contract is ANIMAL plans now & when I took out 2 more ANIMAL plans to add to my ANIMAL plan....

The information provided is outdated from when Orange done more than just ANIMAL plans way back in........2006.


STUDENT PLANS:

http://www1.orange.co.uk/service_plans/paymonthly/student_costs.html


" No longer available ", would not go a miss - Orange do not discount students anything on ANIMAL plans

ANIMAL PLANS:

http://www1.orange.co.uk/service_plans/paymonthly/plans_overview.html

NO explanation of online/telesales plans discounted as per " websave ", no explanation not buying DIRECT from an Orange shop means these plans may differ


UNIQUE:

Before I direct you to Orange's official Unique page where a large lack of correct information is available on the webpage & Orange's website, let me break down Unique for all the MSE's:

Unique ( internationally the technology is known as UMA ) has a additional chip inside your mobile that uses wi-fi to route/transfer your call to Orange's servers rather than via the usual Orange " wireless " mobile network, great if you have Orange signal issues at home or work or anywhere IF wi-fi is available, you can connect to Orange and all services as per usual are available, Unique calls started over wi-fi ( shown on mobile screen ) transfer to the Orange mobile network seemless from wi-fi which handset dependant, all should do so per specification but all have limitations - Blackberry UMA handsets work on all services ( kind of*) anyhow transfering from wi-fi to Orange coverage the remainder of the call is FREE to one of your 30 countries landlines from your 1000 Unique mins, saving you a fortune on NON included animal plan mins you would be charged the INTERNATIONAL rate from per minute at very expen$ive rates. Unique calls on your bill are marked as " Homezone " & billed at £0.00.

*Since Unique server upgrade of August 2008, Blackberry email does not work over wi-fi & you have to change between Blackberry Browser, Hotspot Browser & Orange Browser depending on wi-fi or Orange connectivity to Orange. Orange only market Blackberry Unique to Business customers but BB 8320, 8800, 8120 all work on Personal ANIMAL plans....MADNESS marketing by Orange as they are the best Unique handsets available

Nokia 6301 cannot use wi-fi to use Orangeworld/Internet over wi-fi. ( its replacement 6300i due on Orange Summer 2008 was scrapped, same phone that was meant to allow wi-fi internet use )


http://www.orange.co.uk/unique/

Nice demo of how it all works for you at home - IF only setting it up with Orange on your account was " quite alot easier " - http://www.orange.co.uk/unique/demo.htm



" you can get inclusive UK, International, landline and Orange mobile calls when at home " with your Unique Phone " And it's now available free with Orange and Mobile broadband packages "

No mention of WHICH 30 countries *landlines* you get inclusive calls to ?

Orange Unique handset customers are available from August 2008 to ANY non-Orange broadband customer @ cost ( if broadband provider supports such traffic )

£1/mth for free Orange mobile calls ( no Orange Livebox 2nd line, Orange Wireless & Talk or Orange Landline " numbers " are included - again no information of such restrictions available ANYWHERE from Orange )

£3/mth Orange UK & UK 01/02/03 landline calls

£5/mth Orange UK, UK 01/02/03 & landline calls to 30 countries

( all have 1000 mins fair use policy )

Now, lets look at Unique T&C....

http://www.orange.co.uk/terms/6499.htm?linkfrom=terms_internet_default&link=box_main_pos_2_2_link_1&article=termsandconditionsuniquephone


2.The Unique Phone offer (“The Offer”) is available to new and existing Orange Pay Monthly customers from 1 November 2006 until 31 October 2007 inclusive subject to the additional terms set out below excluding business customers (“The Eligible Customers”)


Incorrect ! Unique offer is still ongoing

4. You need to have an activated Orange Wireless Broadband service in order to make and receive calls over the Orange Wireless Broadband Network

Incorrect ! From August 2008 this is no longer applicable


5. If you are an Eligible Customer you must be on Canary £50 with Unique phone tariff or Panther £65 with Unique phone tariff (an “Eligible Tariff”) to qualify for the Offer.

Incorrect ! Orange integrated Unique with ANY animal plan

7. The Offer is that you will receive an Orange Broadband package, normally £17.99 per month, inclusive as part of your Eligible tariff at no additional cost. This package provides download speed of up to 8 Meg, is subject to a 2GB usage allowance and includes a Livebox which is provided to you on loan and enables you to make and receive telephone calls by attaching a tone dial/ touchtone telephone to the Livebox. Speeds in excess of 2 Meg are only available in certain areas and the top speed may vary significantly depending on how far you live from your local exchange. If your line won’t support our fastest broadband speeds we’ll give you the best speed your line will support.

Incorrect ! Orange Unique allows Broadband Unlimited from the original free/£5 Orange Broadband offer for £5 see link below & avoid the Samsung !

http://shop.orange.co.uk/shop/show/handsets/pay_monthly/all/all/all/unique_phone

States " Unique phones come with Unlimited Broadband for just £5 a month on top of your chosen pay monthly plan "


12. If you are on an Eligible Tariff the Offer will be applied to your account for the period you remain on an Eligible Tariff and have your Unique Phone device paired with an activated Livebox.

Incorrect ! You will need to call Orange Registrations & ask them to apply Unique bundles to your mobile number using the Unique handset, you will also have to get them to apply the £5 Unique Broadband to your Orange Broadband account or place the order for such & inforce them to contact Broadband Sales to do so as India customer service will tell you " Sorry, £5 Broadband Unlimited is no longer available " you will explain Unique and they in return ask " What is this Unique you talk of ", its not about Orange applying such to your accounts its more ENFORCING them to provide as DIRECTLY advertised by Orange's ( outsourced ) website. Failure on YOU to sort this registration out will mean no one @ Orange customer services or teams on 150 can help you & after many months of agony of waiting YOU with the Executive Office team ( fantastic team ) manually going through your bills together & recalculating your each overcharged bill after months & months of waiting on BILLING INTEGRITY to do such as their department is EMPLOYED to do, as such having " arrears " on your account you will be blocked from FULL " your account " access, handset unlocking, changing " your group ", having a replacement handset due to handset fault etc..etc... infact your account is in LOCKDOWN mode for the " arrears " BILLING INTEGRITY fails to sort out.

AGAIN calling Registration to register your new account or Unique mobile's IMEI handset number to the account on UPGRADE, YOU are required to inform & educate said ORANGE REGISTRATION employee of UNIQUE, UNIQUE BUNDLES & £5 Unlimited Broadband status while directing them to Orange's relevant webpage's to confirm such products/offers/bundles/promotions EXIST, REGISTRATION EMPLOYEE will then put you on hold forever & a day while REGISTRATION employee/team leader & manager TRY to sort out YOUR package as MARKETED & SOLD to YOU, eventually your education to employee/team leader/manager pays off when such staff make frantic calls to other Orange departments to allow such to be applied to your account, while this is ultimately severely annoying and completely unprofessional the minimum of an hour you spend on the phone to REGISTRATIONS to do so reaps Unique rewards - pity it takes so much effort to keep a customer within the RETURN & CANCEL contract period !


So for future Unique customer's explain what you want done as above & when they start panicing or go to put you on hold ask registrations to DO THIS :


Information : Tell Orange employee to use Guru ( internal info system ) & search for "unique phone" choose>"costs">"non-orange broadband customers" or "orange broadband customer"

To apply bundles:

Go to CSS screen : BUNDLES>PROMOTIONS>HOMEZONEBUNDLES

The bundles are called:

"Unique to OMobiles Add" for the £1 one (CSS code: CONVUNIQUEADD1)

"Unique to OMobiles-Fixed Add" for the £3 one (CSS code: CONVUNIQUEADD3)

"Unique to OMob-Fixed-Intl Add" for the £5 one (CSS code: CONVUNIQUEADD5)

GrammarGirl

Sorry diamonds, not really sure what you're telling me here? Other than Orange are a completely incompetent company!

I personally have no problem with Orange... I'm an Orange customer and have always found them helpful, friendly and good value. Unfortunately it seems my boyfriend has been victim of a miscommunication which we can hopefully resolve.

One thing that did irk me however... My boyfriend hasn't received a single letter about this outstanding amount (dating back to Nov 2008) until this weekend. When he questioned why he wasn't contacted earlier, Orange told him they had been sending alerts to his Orange online account! :rolleyes: Obviously, as he believed he was no longer an Orange customer, he hasn't been checking the account.

diamonds

Strange because if I have an outstanding balance when my next bill is produced I always get a letter for both amounts lumped together a few days after my next billing date wanting OVERDUE amount paid even if its £10 from previous bill & new bill is £90.00 my OVERDUE letter says £100 is OVERDUE ! When infact £90.00 is not OVERDUE....its not due for another 9-10 days via direct debit & usually within the 9-10 days my service gets barred & you have to call 150 to have a " CODE " applied to unblock the " USAGE RESTRICTION ", I'm only ever in arrears when bills have been sent to BILLING INTEGRITY to be recalculated ( & you will wait several months ) while each month produced the same OVERDUE amounts even though I paid what I am due, what happens ? - BARRED ! call 150, explain - get " CODE " applied.

On & on & on & Ariston

Orange's system does not see a BILLING INTEGRITY recalculation is why you have a OVERDUE amount awaiting credited back to your account - bloody Orange's systems........the problem with Orange is not most the staff on the phone ( although you occasion get THEE idiot ( 3rd party Orange recruitment - minimal training & " on phones love " )

It's the management of Orange, policies & its computer software - BUILT specifically for YOU with LOVE from France Telecom to " enhance " your Orange customer experience....6 years later its utter FAILURE on this " enhancement ", still has it not been addressed...for staff or customers.

The French are one bitter twisted lot to brits, I have used Orange divisions around the world & even with my English & the barrier of my lack of mother tongue in Europe Orange divisions with bad english from whomever answers - WE GET THERE 99% easier than Orange UK !

I have not experienced these problems with Orange EXCEPT Orange UK & Orange France, even Orange Australia - Hutchison who sold Orange in 1999 whom licensed the Orange logo in AU done a fantastically better job than the MAIN Orange company ( until Orange AU closed in 2006 & customers got transfer to 3AU ( Hutchison AU - NEW 3G brand .......with India CARE to boot ! aaarrrrggggghhh :eek: as if before AU, 3UK India CARE wasnt bad enough !!! )