Advice wanted about uni problem.

Oldernotwiser

Fire_Fox wrote: »

The college I attend now is different again, with some parts of the course being spoonfed - how many times have we gone over Harvard referencing?! - at the expense of any direction in the more academic areas. Modules on management theory are completely self taught, for example. The library was completely unprepared for degree level students in my first year, full of books for A level and access to few relevant journals. The reading lists provided are very out of date, with numerous texts from the 90s (my field is very fast moving) and many not in our library at all. This was something poo poo'd by the course tutor at the time: this year we have a new librarian who stated publically we had the worst facilities of any department!

I've taught in several FE courses and, quite frankly, most of them shouldn't be offering degree level study. Students choosing to study at such places out of convenience/moneysaving do so at their peril!

Bluebird24

welf_man wrote: »

Many Universities / courses require you to pass every assessment and give you an automatic resubmission if you fail the first time.

I work at a '94 Group, research-based, top-20 University and still students have an accepted right to pre-submission assistance if they want it.

I'm fascinated to know where some of you study that this isn't the case!

Mel.

I graduated from a Red Brick university and there was no resubmission. If you failed an assessed essay then you did badly in the module, one would assume. Exams could be resat in August for a maximum 40 pass mark. If you failed a core module, then you failed to progress through the Honours route.

There were weekly office hours for every tutor which I'd imagine you could use to discuss ideas for essays or problems with them, but generally we improved our written submissions by learning from the feedback from previous ones. The only sample we could hand in throughout the degree was a maximum 1,500 words from our 12,000 word dissertations.

bestpud

mellymeep wrote: »

I consider myself to be quite an active student, I'm not expected to be spoon fed and have my lecturers write my assignments for me like some of you are probably thinking. I know its all about independent study, but what some of you can't seem to grasp what I'm complaining about is that we're not even given the basic information to build on ourselves! I understand that lecturers are busy people, but surely even if part of their job is to teach undergraduates they should do it properly? That's like saying part of my job at Sainsburys was to serve customers and take their money, so I can just ignore giving any sort of good customer service because the most important thing is to get the money. If I !!!! off the customers they aren't going to come back, which means no money. (Loose example there but I'm trying to make sense of what your all implying)

I do make use of the library facilities, that's another complaint I have though (and have actually made comment about this to the Uni) The amount of books and journals available to for Education students is ridiculous. We're given wider reading lists at the beginning of modules and we have to literally be in the library 5 seconds after this if we have any chance of seeing the books/journals we need for the rest of the year! I don't understand why there aren't more copies of them, there's about 300 people on my course alone and the University does a lot more courses related to Education, I've tried the city library but most of the time they never have the text I'm requiring, and I definitely don't have enough money to buy my own, especially when they're costing in excess of £50 each. I will take some of your advice though, and make more regular contact with my personal tutor, he was really helpful to me last year although mostly just with helping me get my head around the Harvard Referencing system, he's not actually got anything to do with my course, or even my faculty.. he teaches Computing or something which is baffling.

And my comment about re-submitting assignments wasn't very clear sorry, It's what someone else said my course requires me to pass all my assignments in the module in order to get credits to pass the year. If I hand in a sub-standard piece of work because I've no clue what im writing about and it fails I can't "learn from it" because I'll have to re-submit in order to get the capped mark of 40% which will be a complete disaster because my course is all assignments, I don't have any exams so its pretty intense with work all the time.

All I want to do is do well and graduate with a good degree, I completely understand that this is nothing like College any more, It just annoys me that its a complete up hill struggle all the time because of the lack of even the most basic support I'm supposed to receive.

I thought you said you didn't attend the lectures where you were given a handout each week? Perhaps the information was in the handouts?

Their job is to deliver the bare bones and your job is to take it away and do what you will with it. I wouldn't say they should be 'teaching' you but perhaps others will disagree; I certainly don't expect to be taught a subject.

You should be given a marking criteria, intended outcomes or the like. You need to look at those to get an idea of what they are expecting to see.

The book issue is one shared by many. You need to be quick off the mark and get reserving if that is the case. Usually it is parent students who miss out with things like this as they often have to leave at the end of a lecture and so don't have time to get in first, so to speak.

I tend to ask the lecturer beforehand if there is a reading list and most will respond to a polite request by email. The other thing to do is ask previous students (ones in the year above you) what books they found most useful - that works very well in my experience as they usually know better than the lecturer!

What is the basic support you are 'supposed to receive'?

Oldernotwiser

Completely agree with the above; academic staff are not supposed to be teachers or to tell you what you need to study. They should be suggesting directions and clarifying certain points when people have problems, but not teaching.

If books are disappearing too quickly from the library then you should perhaps discuss with your student rep or tutor whether more of them should be put on short term loan or not be available to be issued away from the library.

squirrelchops

I agree about the book situation.....it seems to happen to everyone! As student rep I take student comments to the field board meeting where the head of the learning centre also is prsent and she is very good at getting more books on short term loans.

Also, although some studnets will 'nab' books immediately, from experience it is often a few weeks down the line you start to really need core texts for essays....hence I put them on hold and wit 2 weeks and this has worked for me as they are ready when I am! If there has been a specific chapter needed to be read pre-lecture and I haven't go the book I will ask soemone who does have it if I may photocopy the chapter or borrow it to read in the break time.

Also, although there is the set reading list there are many other books also available of course. I know that sounds basic but so many on my course were 'afraid' to be reading other texts or in fact were too lazy to trawl through the library. I found some great books just by having a look on the shelves.

Alternatively, if you are really stuck the lecturers often have book cases full of texts. If I am desperate i will approach them for help and borrow a book for 48hours say. One lecturer really believes we sholdn't have to buy any books......yes this would be fab if it were possible.

Finally what about JOURNALS? These are usually free via your Uni and will often be the best up to date and relevent information you can get. Since getting my head round the journal system I use a lot less books and am also demonstrating the use of other material to support my work.

Fire_Fox

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I've taught in several FE courses and, quite frankly, most of them shouldn't be offering degree level study. Students choosing to study at such places out of convenience/moneysaving do so at their peril!

I agree that many FE colleges should not be offering degree level study; but that's fine for both you and I to say with the benefit of hindsight. My course title is no longer offered at Leeds Met (accredited by), but is available at an increasing number of FE colleges. Several students in my year had applied to Leeds Met and got transferred at the last minute. I was assured we had full access to the Leeds Met library, but that was incorrect. Instead we are guest users which means no reserving books and no access to the computers - virtually all the journals - at all.

This is coming across now as a moan, when it was intended more as saying that problems are not always the student's fault. Some courses are very badly run, or don't offer students even basic support. Some universities are certainly accepting kids that are just not capable of degree level, but at 18 you can't be expected to know that for yourself.

Aspiring

mellymeep wrote: »

I consider myself to be quite an active student, I'm not expected to be spoon fed and have my lecturers write my assignments for me like some of you are probably thinking. I know its all about independent study, but what some of you can't seem to grasp what I'm complaining about is that we're not even given the basic information to build on ourselves! - - - - - --

All I want to do is do well and graduate with a good degree, I completely understand that this is nothing like College any more, It just annoys me that its a complete up hill struggle all the time because of the lack of even the most basic support I'm supposed to receive.

Basic information is fairly subjective: a topic title may be enough for one person, a handout may be needed for another person and a whole discussion might be necessary for someone else and may all be perceived as "basic" information.

So, I think part of the problem is, your expectations vs the input you are getting.

Sometimes you say "I", sometimes you say "we're", so, do you discuss this with your group? Do they all feel the same way? Is it a case that some are understanding more than others and it's the "others" who are feeling they are being left behind?

Are you part of, or can you form, a study group? Is it a fair mix of learning styles? For example, those who need just the title, through to those who need an hours discussion and those who fall inbetween.

Do you have a study buddy? Do you share the research workload?

Cost of books - could you share the cost with your study buddy/study group if buying them is the only guarantee to getting the information? Could you purchase them 2nd hand from former students?

300 people on your course = 300 potential sources of information to clarify anything you do not understand = 300 potential sources of reference material that you could utilise = 300 potential sources of support.

Fire_Fox

mellymeep wrote: »

I definitely don't have enough money to buy my own, especially when they're costing in excess of £50 each.

You should be expecting to purchase one key text - two if they are less expensive - for each module from your reading list. There have been 20% off full price books from Borders etc. offers on recently, or get hold of a second hand copy through a college noticeboard or Green Metropolis or Amazon sellers. If there are 300 on your course, there must be 300 students in the year above who are keep to sell a book or two on? I spent £600 on Amazon in 2008, plus I subscribe to several industry magazines.

The vast majority of students are not that broke, maintenance grants and loans plus a part-time job should mean you can manage if you are sensible. If you are struggling then complete a Statement of Affairs (sticky on DFW main page) and post it on the Debt-free Wannabe board. Core texts should be taking priority over nights out, clothes etc. as they will actually pay for themselves in the long run - either through time saved hunting for information, or in improved wages once you graduate.

Hope this helps! :A

The_One_Who

mellymeep wrote: »

I understand that lecturers are busy people, but surely even if part of their job is to teach undergraduates they should do it properly?

Well, it'd be nice if they all loved teaching but they don't. They aren't hired on their teaching abilities, but their research. Teaching experience is good but not essential. At the research intensive universities it is pot luck whether they are a good lecturer or not. I happen to have come out quite lucky in that the lecturers who are the most prolific in their writing are also the best at giving lectures. But then, if you don't go to lectures you can't really comment on the person's lecturing ability.

I do make use of the library facilities, that's another complaint I have though (and have actually made comment about this to the Uni) The amount of books and journals available to for Education students is ridiculous. We're given wider reading lists at the beginning of modules and we have to literally be in the library 5 seconds after this if we have any chance of seeing the books/journals we need for the rest of the year!

The library has a budget and they need to be able to balance all the costs of journals (paper and electronic) as well as getting new books all the time for every department in the university. I rarely use the wider reading lists, I go to the section in the library and find similar books, maybe I'm just strange. If you are having trouble getting hold of books then you should be able to recall them, or ask your subject librarian if there is any possibility of putting the book in a short/restricted loan section. If that fails there are always inter-library loans, but they can cost.

And my comment about re-submitting assignments wasn't very clear sorry, It's what someone else said my course requires me to pass all my assignments in the module in order to get credits to pass the year. If I hand in a sub-standard piece of work because I've no clue what im writing about and it fails I can't "learn from it" because I'll have to re-submit in order to get the capped mark of 40% which will be a complete disaster because my course is all assignments, I don't have any exams so its pretty intense with work all the time.

Do you not get any feedback? If not I'd ask once you get it back, before you need to re-draft it, if your lecturer or tutor or whoever could look over it and see where you went wrong.

the lack of even the most basic support I'm supposed to receive.

What do you expect to receive? It was once called 'reading' a degree because lectures weren't compulsory and you were expected to use the literature to get your degree. Now we are much more spoon-fed, even if we don't want to admit it.

Oldernotwiser

Fire_Fox wrote: »

I agree that many FE colleges should not be offering degree level study; but that's fine for both you and I to say with the benefit of hindsight. My course title is no longer offered at Leeds Met (accredited by), but is available at an increasing number of FE colleges. Several students in my year had applied to Leeds Met and got transferred at the last minute. I was assured we had full access to the Leeds Met library, but that was incorrect. Instead we are guest users which means no reserving books and no access to the computers - virtually all the journals - at all.

This is coming across now as a moan, when it was intended more as saying that problems are not always the student's fault. Some courses are very badly run, or don't offer students even basic support. Some universities are certainly accepting kids that are just not capable of degree level, but at 18 you can't be expected to know that for yourself.

If someone who's 18 is bright enough to be studying for a degree then they're bright enough to investigate their options, with the help of parents, schools and Connexions. Unfortunately, many people look only at the financial situation and decide to study at their local college, regardless of its suitability.

However, I agree it's unfortunate in the situation you describe, when changes are made at the last minute. I also agree that too many people are accepted for this level of study who just aren't up to it. In many places, the "bums on seats" policy rules!