Is the recession really Brown's fault?

nickmason

Can anyone tell me why the poll tax was so bad? (especially in light of the acute observations that if the Tories had brought forward half of the civil liberty removing legislation that this government has, there would have been rioting on the streets)

It seems to me it was just a mechanism for dismay, and that escalated into rioting because of the people involved. (Just to be controversial, compare it with the extraordinarily peaceful marches on Iraq or hunting that have taken place under this government).

ES10

LauraW10 wrote: »

Yeah - life was great under the Tories

Yeah ..it was great under Labour in the 70's ....three day week, power cuts, bin strikes, transport strikes, unions holding the ordinary working people to ransom ...lovely stuff! .....oh and don't get me started about now ! ...we're all having a fantastic time ...they've done a great job ..haven't they??
Anyway it won't be long before there are riots in the streets again I think !

mbga9pgf

dgsdfgdsgfdsfgsffgdsfg

matthewcb

Hypothetically, let's say the Tories announce what they would *really* do to fix the economy.
If Labour were then to just simply implement those polices, do you think the short-sighted electorate would remember they were Tory polices, or vote Labour in again? Remember those ridiculous 'Brown Bounces'? Brown will call an election the minute we have another of those imho.
My guess is the latter, which is why I think the Tories are very quiet. In a sense it's bad for the economy, but I can understand why they're keeping their cards close to their chest.
It seems to me that the New Labour project was all about being electable, not about what they would do once they got there.

Rochdale_Pioneers

ES10 wrote: »

Yeah ..it was great under Labour in the 70's ....three day week, power cuts, bin strikes, transport strikes, unions holding the ordinary working people to ransom ...lovely stuff! .....oh and don't get me started about now ! ...we're all having a fantastic time ...they've done a great job ..haven't they??
Anyway it won't be long before there are riots in the streets again I think !

Erm the 3 day week was Ted Heath's Tories. Power cuts too as the power station workers came out. Unions holding ordinary working people to ransom? Yes that was also under the Tories - Heath's snap February 74 election was under the "who rules Britain?" question, and people voted out the government.

You're right - the 70s were awful as the corporatist settlement fell apart. Those policies were run by both Conservative and Labour governments for several decades though - the way you were talking it was only the winter of discontent that was bad.

cogito

nickmason wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why the poll tax was so bad? (especially in light of the acute observations that if the Tories had brought forward half of the civil liberty removing legislation that this government has, there would have been rioting on the streets)

It seems to me it was just a mechanism for dismay, and that escalated into rioting because of the people involved. (Just to be controversial, compare it with the extraordinarily peaceful marches on Iraq or hunting that have taken place under this government).

Under the old rating system, the only people who paid for local authority services were householders. Everyone else received the services for free. When the community charge was introduced, these !!!!!!!!!!s were incensed by the injustice of having to pay their fair share. Hence the protests led by the likes of the Socialist Workers Party (now there was an oxymoron if I ever heard one).

cogito

cogito wrote: »

Under the old rating system, the only people who paid for local authority services were householders. Everyone else received the services for free. When the community charge was introduced, these !!!!!!!!!!s were incensed by the injustice of having to pay their fair share. Hence the protests led by the likes of the Socialist Workers Party (now there was an oxymoron if I ever heard one).

The word that was censored was free10aders.

!!!!!!, why?

Rochdale_Pioneers

Its also worth making the point that the Tories managed their finances so badly with the Poll Tax that when it was replaced by the Community Charge there was a vast hole in local authority funding. Lamont filled this hole by increasing VAT from 15% to 17.5% (source John major's autobiography). Did VAT ever go back down?

And why was Cameron flapping so much about the alleged 1% increase to 18.5% being proposed apparently for 2010? Thatcher put up VAT from 8% to 15%, his old boss put it up to 17.5%. If 1% would be so cataclysmic and unfair now as he suggests, then how does he live with himself having jacked it up in 1991 to cover a hole created by the Poll Tax Disaster?

And for those hard right nutters who favour a flat rate of income tax, not how well it worked at local government level.

dealsearcher

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Yes that was also under the Tories - Heath's snap February 74 election was under the "who rules Britain?" question, and people voted out the government.

At least Heath had the decency to go to the country. The present government are not giving us the chance to vote them out.

If he had no choice then I would say that in all decency the present government have no choice either, but they just brazen it out.

Rochdale_Pioneers

dealsearcher wrote: »

At least Heath had the decency to go to the country. The present government are not giving us the chance to vote them out.

Heath lost. Why would a Prime Minister call an election earlier than needed if he thought it would be a guaranteed defeat? Did Major?

Our democracy is very simple. Once every 5 years we elect a government. If that government retains a majority in parliament there is no way to get an early election unless the Prime Minister wants one. You don't like the government then vote against them - when the election is called.