If things get tougher?

ceridwen

Well...the extra demand for allotments has been going on for a couple of years now and its physically not even possible to get onto a waiting list in at least some areas now. Personally - I've put myself down on Hugh Fernley-Whittingstall's list for gardensharing - as in I'm hoping someone nearby will share their garden with me. I grow the food and they have 50% of the produce - though I'm not going to get too hopeful about that...believe it when I see it....even though I know of various neglected gardens near me. But - like I said - I'm not going to raise my hopes in case.....

I don't understand the concept of national pride personally (I just happen to have been born in one country, rather than another and I take a worldwide view) - but I do hope that the human race as a whole is going to start pulling together a bit more now.....it IS our only hope frankly....and I do see odd encouraging signs that maybe just maybe we are learning at long long last that we are one people who just happen to be living in various different countries.

pagangirl

Don't think the message is getting through to Joe Public - I went into Liverpool on a message for a neighbour, to the new Liverpool One shopping precinct - you would think they were giving free money away ! Never seen so much being spent when the signs are there for everyone to see how bad things are going to get. (Well, they didn't get any of my money)!!!!:rotfl:

ceridwen

Hi pagangirl

I know what you mean. I guess the phrase "not looking further than the end of their nose" comes to mind here. It feels like some people are walking along the same pavements as me - but living in a parallel universe to me sometimes - as I watch them carry on as normal.

I have come to the conclusion that people fall basically into one of three different "camps" on their personal Timeclock as I call it.

Group 1 - literally focusing on today and maybe not even thinking as far ahead as next week.

Group 2 - focusing as far ahead as the next year or two

Group 3 - focusing decades/maybe even centuries ahead.

I think most people are in Group 2, there's a noticeable number in Group 1. There doesn't seem to be that many in Group 3 - shame, as I'd like some more "company in the room". Maybe it boils down to what your personal experience of life is/what your belief system is which "group" you fall into??

Charis

Ceridwen, I noticed your sig today about Britain only being able to feed 17 million. Have you read this page, written about a year ago, entitled Can Britain Feed Itself? http://transitionculture.org/2007/12/20/can-britain-feed-itself/

It seems that we could feed all the current population if certain changes were made to our diets. Curiously there is not much mention of vegetables and fruit - I couldn't see any reference to growing our own when I scan read the article. Presumably the article concentrates on agricultural land. Anything we grow at home may be in addition to what the writer of the report in the above article has used as a basis for his figures.

ceridwen

Hi Charis

I did read that one a whiles ago - will refresh my memory on it.

I rather take it though that the comment about providing for ourselves from our own resources is in a wider sense than just food.

Clearly - only taking food as the subject - there is the matter of how much we are taking into account - whether it's just taking into account current farmland only, adding in people growing everything possible in gardens (and even there - are we talking just their back gardens or thinking in terms of front gardens being ripped up for food, rather than for parking spaces - as is currently still happening a lot), or going for broke (as I have read discussions even about ripping up our parks and other green spaces for foodgrowing purposes):eek: . I believe in people growing all food possible in their gardens (front and back) - but it seriously worries me for people to even be discussing ripping up our parks to grow food in (I imagine a lot of us would thoroughly resent any attempt to remove any of our "leisure space" for such a purpose). Even when it comes to including in the food that people grow in allotments/gardens for instance - the question arises of whether the food is being grown in the best way to make maximum utilisation of available space.

But - back to the original point - I take "resources" in a much wider way than just thinking about food. It's also water, fuel, access to health care and just plain having plenty of countryside/seaside one can go to for leisure purposes and see very few other people around at the same time. Personally - I find very little point in going somewhere "natural" to get a bit of a "break in nature" if there's many other people around at the same time - sorta defeats the object.

ceridwen

Hmmm....just taken a quick "skim read" of your article you mention Charis....the first thing that stands out to me is that more land will be needed to produce organic food than is currently required for chemically-grown food. Well - post Peak Oil - I believe its the case that things are going to have to be grown organically - hence we will need more foodgrowing land than at present.

I can't in all honesty see that many people giving up eating meat - a lot have over the last couple of decades. I would like to think everyone would - but I don't think that will happen for quite some time - if ever. As for people eating a vegan diet - I believe in eating that way - and I don't do so myself - as it's a noticeable amount of extra hassle to eat in a vegetarian way anyway for one thing - so the thought of the further hassle to eat in a vegan way is a bit daunting to say the least. There is also the fact that I like food and enjoy a good meal - and.....errrr.....I seriously don't like a lot of vegan food products. Soya milk - yuk! Soya cheese - errr...no thanks and so on. If I personally had to live on a vegan diet - my conscience would be very happy, I would be very hungry. So - if I wouldnt swop to a vegan diet (despite agreeing with it) - then I certainly can't see the average meat-eater doing so either.

The other point is that I think people working out how much food we need to feed ourselves are doing just that - working out how much we NEED. One obvious point comes up straight away - the vast majority of us eat more than we NEED to in the Western World. Some of this is down to eating fulfils a lot of "social" purposes - you entertain someone = you feed them. Other non-necessity eating is down to some people just plain eating more than they need to just because they want to - even in a non-social context.

Also - there is still a lot of food wastage going on - that also has to be taken into account.

So - in the "real world" - we need to produce a lot more food than we actually "need" - otherwise there will be shortages.

ALIBOBSY

Just reread my earlier posting and think instead of national pride I really meant community spirit. The sense of we are all here pulling together. National pride is perhaps used in a more political context lol.

I agree about food production, I watched a programme a while back where producers were complaining about the amount of produce rejected by the big supermarkets not because they were bad, but invariably because of how they looked!!!! No wonder the prices are shooting up. Bring back wonky carrots and those rude shaped potatos al la "thats life" lol.

ali x

moonflower_2

Hi everyone
I was wondering if it is worth buying a camping stove with 1 ring run on a cannister or aerosol butane. Or will it be more expensive?

Primrose

I suspect that the camping stove with 1 ring running on canister gas is a pretty expensive option. We have one which we use for quick "barbeques" in the summer, cooking meat on a griddle over it as it's far quicker and less messy than using charcoal. The weather was too miserable this past summer for us to use it but I seem to remember that we get between 3 - 4 cookings of meat out of it. Can't remember how much a gas cartridge costs now but I suspect the same meat cooked over a gas hob for the same period of time would be cheaper. But if your house is all-electric, these little one-ring portable gas hobs are great for use in emergency power cuts.

ceridwen

Canister gas for those little gas stoves - as I recall £10 for a pack of 4. I seem to remember subsequently seeing those canisters available for £1 each at cheapie outlets - but thats very much a matter of luck if they have them in ever.

So - they're not an everyday replacement option - they are a going camping/having emergency cooking facilities in for the alarums and excursions likely in the short-term as we transition over to a Post Peak Oil Society option.