Bad Landing Ryanair FR448 DUB-LPL 3rd Feb - Possibly Injured

MummyOf1_2

I thought i had heard it all... obviously not! people try anything nowadays to get money, it beggars belief. Did you break a nail as well? could be worth filing a complaint - could be worse, you could of been this guy... they had the cheek to charge him for a seat!

bert&ernie

Vicar_in_a_Tutu wrote: »

...

The trouble (bert&ernie) with aviation and the "layperson" is that unfortunately more often than not, people do not know enough about aviation to make informed objective comments. Yes we hear comments all the time from the "bloke in the pub" about flying, and everyone, as you rightly say, is entitled to their opinion, and if he thinks he had a hard landing it probably was, but nothing more. But as stated there are factors which the passengers will never be aware of at times that dictate how the flight crew operate, within the parameters of Company SOPs.

...

We encounter the same trouble when talking about any technical or specialist subject. However this is a public discussion and I don't think it is particularly professional to exploit the obvious information asymmetry to close down debate and ridicule the poorly informed.

Part of any professional's responsibility is to educate the public and enhance the esteem of their profession. Whilst it is important to maintain an air of confidence and authority, I think some of the comments here could create the impression that some aviation professionals are rather arrogant and aloof.

This criticism is not aimed at you vicar, and neither am I having a go at pilots in particular - my comments apply equally to doctors and other professionals who enjoy a respected position in society.

Trollydolly_2

bert&ernie wrote: »

Very amusing. Doubt you'd be so amused if you suffered an injury that stopped you making any more landings, or working at all for that matter - might have to make that £1000 last!

Your quite right, if I had an injury that stopped me making anymore landings or working at all for that matter I would not be amused. :rolleyes:

laalaa

rawy wrote: »

r I thought I paid ryanair to fly me from A to B, not to crash
Rawy

Sorry, but everything aside, that is a ridiculous comment to make!

Of course u dont pay them to crash. Yes, you do pay them to get u from A-B, but sometimes things can happen.

Think of all the poor souls that died in plane crashes. Do u think their relatives are muttering about paying the airline to get from a-b, and not to kill them.

Things happen.

By the sounds of it, it can't have been serious or there would have been something said or done at the time.

Suck it up and get on with it.

Stella_Magpie

I hate to say this but I don't think you will receive any compensation from Ryanair. I have recently flown Ryanair from Birmingham,UK to Pisa, Italy and I admit on both landings my husband and I commented to each other on the "rough" landing. "L plates!", we joked. It was the kind of joke you make when you are nervous and just glad to be in one piece. I won't be booking any more Ryanair flights as this did put me off along with the safety information pasted at eye level on the back of the seat. Lol! Good luck with the compensation but I would be prepared for nothing more than a "Better luck next time" letter...

WSGA

dealsearcher wrote: »

Well I have over 10,000 hours of flying experience mostly on jet airliners, including the 737. The 737-800 is a longer version (It's not quite that simple is it?!) of the 737-300 I flew. One of the problems you get is if the pilot misjudges the flare height and flares too low. With the main wheels being behind the centre of pressure (Don't you mean Centre of Gravity? The C of G is the point about which the aircraft rotates. The Centre of Pressure changes constantly and it is therefore impossible to know where it is at any particular point) the act of flaring rotates the main wheels downwards, when the aircraft is already descending. This will cause a heavy landing if the pilot flares too low (A high flare will, ultimately, have the same result). The longer the aircraft the worse this can be (Wrong. The further behind the C of G the main wheels are, the worse the problem, reagardless of aircraft length).

Wind shear is another possibilty where the headwind suddenly reduces (OR increases) and the aircraft lands heavily because it has lost airspeed. Wind shear can be forcast but the only way to deal with it (There is more than one way)is to add about 5 knots to your approach airspeed (Only 5 knots?! You will find that modern airliners will add half of the steady headwind component plus all of the gust up to a max of 20 knots. And use a lower flap setting. 5 Knots is the absolute minimum required on a very still day). You only notice windshear when the airspeed suddenly drops (Again, or increases. This is known as positive wind shear as opposed to negative wind shear).

Sometimes if the conditions are poor (strong crosswind, runway contamination - snow, etc.) then the pilot may aim for a firm landing which would be safer than a 'greaser' when the wheels don't get a firm grip (The TYRES grip! The reason for a firmer touch down is to ensure the wheels break through any surface contaminant to get good contact with the tarmac).

A combination of these factors can lead to the landing you describe. However if the overhead lockers didn't open and the masks didn't come down (SOME airliners do not have drop down oxygen! I have had very hard touch downs before which did not cause the masks to drop. It is not possible to judge the severity of the touch down using this method) then the landing would not have been that heavy. Of course if you already have a bad back then this kind of landing is indeed anoying and can feel worse than it was.

Reverse is almost always used on landing (Not almost always. ALWAYS). It is only not used if there is a preexisting problem with the reverse thrust (such as? Even if one side is inoperable you still use the other side). Then there is a reduction on the landing and takeoff performance calculation (Totally wrong! Airliners are certified without using reverse thrust for performance reasons. Reverse is used as a supplement to the wheel brakes, it will not stop you if the wheel brakes are not working and becomes less effective at low speeds. The Auto brake fitted to modern airliners gives a set rate of deceleration for each setting, you still get that same rate even if you do not use reverse thrust.). Frequently the pilot will use idle reverse for noise considerations. Passengers may not notice it in that case - because it is a lot quieter.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to this drivel. He is clearly either a Microsoft Flight Sim "Expert" or an arm chair pilot.

A touch down and a landing are not the same thing. A touch down is part of the landing maneuver, A good landing and a smooth touch down are not mutually inclusive.

Would you prefer a pilot to try for a very smooth touch down using up the runway at an impressive rate and touching down, possibly, without enough runway left to stop. Or a slightly firmer touch down, at the right speed and in the right place with plenty of room left to stop?

If you are interested there is a website called PPRuNe(!), the Professional Pilots Rumour Network. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience you can tap into. Passengers are welcome.

P.S. I do not feel the need to let everybody know how many hours flying I have or which aeroplanes I have flown and which I am currently flying. It is impossible to prove and is irrelevant to thiss discussion.

Vicar_in_a_Tutu

Bert&Ernie, I certainly hope I didn't give any impression of ridiculing any less informed people than myself, that was certainly not my intention, and I tried to phrase my post in a way that was neither patronising nor with an air of aloofness.

My main point was merely, in any profession, there can be a huge gap in the public perception of what is going on to the reality. And yes indeed, that applies to many professions, and if this was a discussion about dodgy bricklaying, I wouldn't dare comment as I know nowt about the subject, however I could certainly express an opinion about it, but I would stand to be corrected by those in the industry. And as a professional pilot, I am, have been, and always will be happy to discuss with my passengers anything about aviation that they have questions about and hope I can assist in their understanding of any area of it, in fact that is one of the nicest parts of the job. And yes you are quite right, this is a public forum, and debate and discussion is a damn good thing, and I would never try to close any debate with a "oh I know more than yow", that's the worst type of snobbery which I have no time for amongst a minority of my fellow colleagues, and other professionals in the real world so to speak. However the internet is probably not the best place to go into the minutae of why's and what's and how's in detail as to what happens in any career on a daily basis, therefore I was trying to put the point across that there are sometimes great differences in the public perception to reality. One final point, it does slightly erk me though when I see complete non-sensical comments such as the ones about low cost operators as have been seen on this thread, not by you I might add, but these perceptions need to be challenged as they are rather ill-informed.

Edit to say: Bert I realise your comments were not aimed at me by the way, I just wanted to clarify.

neilbond007

WSGA wrote: »

I wouldn't pay too much attention to this drivel. He is clearly either a Microsoft Flight Sim "Expert" or an arm chair pilot.

A touch down and a landing are not the same thing. A touch down is part of the landing maneuver, A good landing and a smooth touch down are not mutually inclusive.

Would you prefer a pilot to try for a very smooth touch down using up the runway at an impressive rate and touching down, possibly, without enough runway left to stop. Or a slightly firmer touch down, at the right speed and in the right place with plenty of room left to stop?

If you are interested there is a website called PPRuNe(!), the Professional Pilots Rumour Network. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience you can tap into. Passengers are welcome.

P.S. I do not feel the need to let everybody know how many hours flying I have or which aeroplanes I have flown and which I am currently flying. It is impossible to prove and is irrelevant to thiss discussion.

nice website! that's a couple of days at work next week sorted!

omelette451

For the OP, if you really are "100% [sure] he was going too fast", perhaps you should ask for an investigation into the flight data recorders that will undoubtedly contain this information. I have no idea if it's true, but I've always thought air traffic control can monitor plane speeds too, so perhaps you could ask them what happened?

Personally I find it highly unlikely that the pilot is guilty of misconduct. I have every confidence in the training and qualifications required to be a pilot in Europe, and am myself 100% convinced that every European airline, low-cost or otherwise, has a satisfactory commitment to safety and training of crews. In my own experience as a flyer, since we all seem to be experts now (!), I can truthfully say there's no difference in quality between the 'legacy' carriers and the lccs, and am thankful for them on every flight where I disembark in the same condition in which I boarded.

Wings_of_Ambition

WSGA wrote: »

I wouldn't pay too much attention to this drivel. He is clearly either a Microsoft Flight Sim "Expert" or an arm chair pilot.

A touch down and a landing are not the same thing. A touch down is part of the landing maneuver, A good landing and a smooth touch down are not mutually inclusive.

P.S. I do not feel the need to let everybody know how many hours flying I have or which aeroplanes I have flown and which I am currently flying. It is impossible to prove and is irrelevant to thiss discussion.

I'm surprised you're still flying with the "I know better than you. You're wrong, end of story" attitude you have. I may just be starting out on jets, but I for one would never want to spend time on a flightdeck with you. I take it you think the MCC is just a bunch of psychobabble never to be used in real life.