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Bad Landing Ryanair FR448 DUB-LPL 3rd Feb - Possibly Injured
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dealsearcher wrote: »Wind shear is another possibilty where the headwind suddenly reduces and the aircraft lands heavily because it has lost airspeed. Wind shear can be forcast but the only way to deal with it is to add about 5 knots to your approach airspeed. You only notice windshear when the airspeed suddenly drops.
What airspeeed would that be? Indicated air speed? Equivalent airspeed? True air speed? you may want to read up on wind shear and microbursts, you've missed out a huge section including potential indicators0 -
WiseInvestor wrote: »Indeed, in wet conditions Pilots are EXPECTED to make a firm touchdown to break through the surface water on the runway - failure to do so can render the wheelbrakes ineffective and may induce a dangerous skid.
On more modern aeroplanes Reverse Thrust signals to the onboard computers that the Pilots intend to stop rather than make another Take-off.
The wheels have to spin up for the anti skid (ABS on your car) system to work. For that the tyres need grip on the runway.
The combination of wheel spin up and a micro switch (squat switch) on the main gear allows the over wing spoilers to deploy and these dump the lift from the wing and, in turn, cause the aircraft to settle firmly on the runway so that the brakes are more effective. Reverse thrust will only work after the squat switch is pressed when the main gear compresses on landing. On modern aircraft reverse thrust is ihibited in the air until the squat switch is activated. You could select and activate reverse thrust on some older aircraft such as the Trident. On newer aircraft it can be selected in the air but will not acivate until the main gear compresses - pressing the squat switch. In practise you don't select reverse until after landing and the spoilers have deployed.
On takeoff applying reverse thrust signals to the aircraft systems that you are aborting the takeoff.0 -
What airspeeed would that be? Indicated air speed? Equivalent airspeed? True air speed? you may want to read up on wind shear and microbursts, you've missed out a huge section including potential indicators
I'm sorry you wish to argue the point? It's a bit early for you to be just getting back from the pub.
Approach speed is always indicated airspeed.
Feel free to write an essay on microbursts. My point was aimed at those who are not experts.0 -
neilbond007 wrote: »i have to say i love the direction this thread has gone!
Indeed.
What troubles me is the assertion, made by many posters in this thread, that an aircraft passenger is not able to make a judgement on the quality of a landing. It would seem that such judgements are the preserve of professional pilots and opinionated amateurs on a public internet forum. Heaven forbid that a lay person, who has actually experienced the particular event, should have the impertinence to comment on it!
Lets get a few things in perspective. The OP experienced, what he perceived to be, an unusually hard landing. He thought that this might have caused him an injury and he wanted to explore the possibility that this was not the kind of landing that a reasonable person would view as normal.
Having read the comments here and elsewhere, he has concluded that it wasn't really that unusual and, presumably, he has no significant injury. He's decided that its not worth pursuing the matter any further other than to inform the airline that he had an uncomfortable landing experience.
We should probably just leave it there. Otherwise this thread will descend into a highly technical argument about aircraft landing procedure. The flight geeks have already got their handbags (or should that be flight cases?) out!The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.0 -
bert&ernie wrote: »Indeed.
What troubles me is the assertion, made by many posters in this thread, that an aircraft passenger is not able to make a judgement on the quality of a landing. It would seem that such judgements are the preserve of professional pilots and opinionated amateurs on a public internet forum. Heaven forbid that a lay person, who has actually experienced the particular event, should have the impertinence to comment on it!
Lets get a few things in perspective. The OP experienced, what he perceived to be, an unusually hard landing. He thought that this might have caused him an injury and he wanted to explore the possibility that this was not the kind of landing that a reasonable person would view as normal.
Having read the comments here and elsewhere, he has concluded that it wasn't really that unusual and, presumably, he has no significant injury. He's decided that its not worth pursuing the matter any further other than to inform the airline that he had an uncomfortable landing experience.
We should probably just leave it there. Otherwise this thread will decent into a highly technical argument about aircraft landing procedure. The flight geeks have already got their handbags (of should that be flight cases?) out!
"leave it there?"
i don't that's going to happen somehow... i mean... someone with 10,000 hours under his belt thinks he's an expert... pffff
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Look the guy thought he had a hard landing, maybe he did, saw the opportunity to make a few quid with a compo claim (would he thought of that had it been Big Airways and not Ryan I wonder????), has realised he hasnt a leg to stand on and that's pretty much it.
Did he have a pre-existing back condition? Did he sleep awkwardly the night before? We don't know, I personally think it's very doubtful that a landing could actually do that. No, I'm not a doctor, I'm an airline pilot with my own fair share of hard landings under my belt.
The trouble (bert&ernie) with aviation and the "layperson" is that unfortunately more often than not, people do not know enough about aviation to make informed objective comments. Yes we hear comments all the time from the "bloke in the pub" about flying, and everyone, as you rightly say, is entitled to their opinion, and if he thinks he had a hard landing it probably was, but nothing more. But as stated there are factors which the passengers will never be aware of at times that dictate how the flight crew operate, within the parameters of Company SOPs.
Examples of the un-informed comment are aplenty here. The lady who has an issues with lo-co's and thinks if you pay 3 times the price for a "proper" carrier then the landings are better (BA 777 at Heathrow was a rather firm landing madame!)???!!?!? And pilots shun the loco's because a friend who IS a pilot says so?!? Nonsense, utter nonsense.
Training and recurrent training standards are impeccably high, lo-co or flag carrier so let's dispel that myth here (no, I do not work for a lo-co).
All's I'm syaing is yes, everyone has a rightful opinion, however when it comes to aviation, they are oft misguided, similar to the media "terror at 30000ft" when in actual fact when you read into these things, they were actually rather non-events and it sells papers. "Bit of a hiccup, all normal, crew acts in accordance with training, alls' well really" doesn't make for a great headline.
Anyway, rant over. Have a good day you lot whatever your'e doing.
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dealsearcher wrote: »I'm sorry you wish to argue the point? It's a bit early for you to be just getting back from the pub.
Approach speed is always indicated airspeed.
Feel free to write an essay on microbursts. My point was aimed at those who are not experts.
As it was aimed at those who are not experts I was merely pointing out that your previous statement:
"Wind shear is another possibilty where the headwind suddenly reduces and the aircraft lands heavily because it has lost airspeed" will have confused them. IAS, EAS ot TAS are just three letters to 99% of readers who simply think in groundspeed.0 -
No sunshine YOU are wrong. A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.
You are right. Lots of people are right, or partly right, but there's a lot of rubbish around as well.
The original poster hurt himself because of a hard landing, (that's hard in terms it jerked his back, caused him pain) however it probably wasn't a 'hard landing' in a technical aviation sense and no blame was being assigned to either the pilots or landing.
But amateur aviation experts making definitive statements like "Having flown hundreds of times both long and short haul i can assure you that you are wrong." is absolutely wrong. I believe that one of the respondees is a current pilot, and one has identified themself as an ex-pilot.
But it's dangerous for non-experts to make such statements based on noises you hear and asserting technical statements as a result which people might take as fact.0 -
An old, but relevant news piece: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1343517.ece
Perhaps what you experienced was a "high energy approach incident”.
NB: the anecdotal comments by readers are interesting.0
This discussion has been closed.
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