UPDATED: Air Source Heat Pumps/Air Con - Full Info & Guide, is it cheaper to run than mains gas?

Northern_Boy_3

Zeupater - that's a good point but I don't think that's the reason for the differential. The Ecodan quote states 11169kWh as the "annual heatload of the building". The Panasonic quote says 35000kwh is the "annual energy consumption". If the figures were switched (i.e. so that 11169 was the annual energy consumption rather than the heat load) then i think this could have been the explanation but, they are that way round.

I've tired in vain to find out if "annual heat load" and "annual energy consumption" are one and the same but kind find nothing.

Just to complicate matters, the supplier quoting Ecodan also gave a quotation for a pellet boiler but for some reason gave the "annual heat load of the building" as 24966kWh. Surely the heat load of the building should be the same regardless of the heating solution!?

[Deleted User]

Northern_Boy wrote: »

Zeupater - that's a good point but I don't think that's the reason for the differential. The Ecodan quote states 11169kWh as the "annual heatload of the building". The Panasonic quote says 35000kwh is the "annual energy consumption". If the figures were switched (i.e. so that 11169 was the annual energy consumption rather than the heat load) then i think this could have been the explanation but, they are that way round.

I've tired in vain to find out if "annual heat load" and "annual energy consumption" are one and the same but kind find nothing.

Just to complicate matters, the supplier quoting Ecodan also gave a quotation for a pellet boiler but for some reason gave the "annual heat load of the building" as 24966kWh. Surely the heat load of the building should be the same regardless of the heating solution!?

Suggest working out the heat requirement of each room in your house using one of the various radiator size calculators on the web then add all together to get an idea of what boiler size is required?

[Deleted User]

Northern_Boy wrote: »

Jeepjunkie: And is that Ecodan your only source of heating? if so, that's impressive. For the record, I'll also be having a woodburning stove in the front lounge as a top up.

Cardew: Your comment about the MPG made me laugh and echoed my own suspicions. What surprises me is the sheer dearth of independent revoews of these products (although I understand that a follow up report from the EST's field testing is due in the coming months). I'm very surprised that Which? have not got involved in area that is woefully under-represented in terms of independent reviews.
Gas is available - I want to come off it - this was (and remains) a headline priority for me in taking on this project.
As for the difference in response with this type of heating, I am aware of this but, having just started a family (with my wife not planning to return to work anytime soon) this actually this suits our needs.

Yes we have a log burner as wife likes to cook in the evenings, not essential though and was installed prior to ASHP. Are you mains gas or LPG gas?

lovesgshp

jeepjunkie wrote: »

Yes e.g. my Ecodan uses approx 6500 -7000 units per year in a 100 odd year old building with just CWI, loft insulation and some underfloor insulation. Clearly 35000 units is wrong. 11000 units on your other quote is likely to be more in line with expectations.

Cheers

That still seems a lot of energy JJ. We use 10000kwh per year in a 250 year old building with lower insulation, for everything here. Ok, our temps in the house are not as high as yours.

zeupater

Northern_Boy wrote: »

Zeupater - that's a good point but I don't think that's the reason for the differential. The Ecodan quote states 11169kWh as the "annual heatload of the building". The Panasonic quote says 35000kwh is the "annual energy consumption". If the figures were switched (i.e. so that 11169 was the annual energy consumption rather than the heat load) then i think this could have been the explanation but, they are that way round.

I've tired in vain to find out if "annual heat load" and "annual energy consumption" are one and the same but kind find nothing.

Just to complicate matters, the supplier quoting Ecodan also gave a quotation for a pellet boiler but for some reason gave the "annual heat load of the building" as 24966kWh. Surely the heat load of the building should be the same regardless of the heating solution!?

Hi

I'd just pick up the telephone and talk to the Panasonic supplier and ask them to explain the 35000kWh figure ... if it's energy consumption then you're not talking about a highly insulated 4 bedroom semi ... at a COP of ~3.0 you're talking about a 100000kWh heating load, which is something like ~10 times our total input, or around ~50 years if you allow for our input from burning logs and take our gas usage for the last 12 months, and we don't live in a 4 bed semi .....

You need to get to the bottom of what the figures say, or what the supplier believes the figures say.

As an aside, what's the total floor area of the living space of the extended building ?? ... this should give an indication of what a realistic requirement would be.

HTH
Z

grahamc2003

Could someone please help me out with a query on the noise from the outside unit? I'm thinking of getting a 14kW Ecodan. The outside unit (or are there 2?) would be hung on the outside of the main living room wall (which is two layers of bricks with a large cavity filled with some sort of blown-in insulation material). It would be about 8 feet off the ground and the top would be about 1 foot below the carport roof.

What would the noise be like inside the living room when it was working flat out, and when working 'normally' on low power?

TiredGeek

jeepjunkie wrote: »

I have a spare unit which is a mighty pain to move if need be...

You still got that? I'd have thought you'd have moved it on by now

As for noise, my place is in a VERY quiet area, and even running flat out our two 14kw units are not what I'd call annoying. They make a whooshing noise like a moderate breeze is blowing around the house when you're outdoors, maybe it's the thickness of our solid stone walls but we don't hear a thing inside
You wouldn't want to sit next to them in the garden but 15 foot away and it's fine.
Ours are mounted on unistrut on top of concrete blocks to raise them above the snow line.

According to Google, 60db is the same noise level as a normal conversation. The Ecodans come in mid 50's if I remember right so not loud by any standards.

TiredGeek

If you're sure you don't need it as a spare, and I'd say by now you'd know if you did, I'd bung it on ebay with a collection only and spend the money on something you want
Must be worth a grand at least....

[Deleted User]

TiredGeek wrote: »

If you're sure you don't need it as a spare, and I'd say by now you'd know if you did, I'd bung it on ebay with a collection only and spend the money on something you want
Must be worth a grand at least....

Should do eh...

Trouble is it is blocked in by a few bulk bags full of logs :rotfl:

Perhaps in the new year

grahamc2003

Question on the ecodan. Is the output from the outside unit hot water, or hot refrigerant?

If it's hot water, does it go through a valve to route the water between the rads and HW tank, or does it all go into the HW tanks and a secondary circuit takes the heat from the tank to the rads?

Would the heat losses from the outside unit to a tank 25m away be within spec?

Anyone any experience of Dimplex HPs? Seem to be well thought and offered alongside ecodans - the advantages (so they say) is that Dimplex are UK designed for the UK climate. They have mega kW heating elements which I'm keen to avoid (I assume the ecodan doesn't?)

Thanks.