PCN, Any point in appealling it?

frannyann

Neil_B wrote: »

I'm honestly not being funny!LOL

The point being that if you can't answer that or answer correctly then maybe they haven't made the mandatory info clear.

Gotta go now, will check back later.

Its ok, I didn't think you were being funny The question actually made me realise I didn't really know the answer to that.

frannyann

Ok, I have done an online appeal (grovel really ) Pointed out I have never done it before and that it was a very short overstay of the ticket. Printed out a copy of my appeal to prove I sent it. fingers crossed.

MunnyMan

£25.00 Blimey ours in London are £120.00 reduced to £60.00 i would feel like my birthday come early if i got one of these :rotfl:

Even though you are undoubtedly "guilty" as charged you could allways try a site like this one>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pepipoo.com to assist you to find a legal loophole ie.. illegal road markings, illegal issue etc i have used it many times in the past to get off with PCNs has proved very succesful if you can be arsed to sift through the pages to find relative Info....

in an age that sees councils able to enbalm you endlessly in red tape i do wish you luck and and a bit of advice ...traffic attendants these days have inbuilt instinct as to where they will get lucky so to speak remember they are doing it all day long!

Anyways good luck

Neil_B

frannyann wrote: »

In answer to your question, I am not completely sure TBH. I read it that if I appeal then it is all on hold until the decision is made then I get 14 days to pay the £25. Not really sure what happens if there is no reply and then I get a NtO??

Yep, my point.
I think they probably do include everything but in a very roundabout and confusing way. Below is an excerpt of what the applicable Regs say they must tell you. Compare and see what you think.

"that if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the period of 28 days referred to in subparagraph (g), a notice to owner may be served by the enforcement authority on the owner of the vehicle.

(a) that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and
(b) that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—
(i) those representations will be considered;
(ii) but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner."

frannyann

MunnyMan wrote: »

£25.00 Blimey ours in London are £120.00 reduced to £60.00 i would feel like my birthday come early if i got one of these :rotfl:

Even though you are undoubtedly "guilty" as charged you could allways try a site like this one>>>>>>>>>>> www.pepipoo.com to assist you to find a legal loophole ie.. illegal road markings, illegal issue etc i have used it many times in the past to get off with PCNs has proved very succesful if you can be arsed to sift through the pages to find relative Info....

in an age that sees councils able to enbalm you endlessly in red tape i do wish you luck and and a bit of advice ...traffic attendants these days have inbuilt instinct as to where they will get lucky so to speak remember they are doing it all day long!

Anyways good luck

Thanks for all that! :T

frannyann

Neil_B wrote: »

Yep, my point.
I think they probably do include everything but in a very roundabout and confusing way. Below is an excerpt of what the applicable Regs say they must tell you. Compare and see what you think.

"that if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the period of 28 days referred to in subparagraph (g), a notice to owner may be served by the enforcement authority on the owner of the vehicle.

(a) that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and
(b) that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—
(i) those representations will be considered;
(ii) but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner."

Crikey, thats a mouthful on its own! :rotfl: Thanks, will decode and compare

frannyann

Sadly the grovel didn't work

TheBogsDollocks

Grovels don't work I'm afraid to say....it's cash they want not an apology.

I take it you still have 14 days at the discounted rate? If so, you still have time to take action. I advise requesting all photos taken and a copy of the CEO's log book entry for your vehicle. You may find that errors were made that get you off.

Neil may not agree but even though you were 10 minutes late I still think it worth submitting a defence on the clock issue.

Neil is right that a 10 minute discrepency is not easy to dispute but making a dispute may knock the confidence of the authority enough to cancel fearing a loss at adjudication.

CEO's are supposed to consult and synchronise with the ticket machine clock before issuing a ticket where expiry of time is concerned as this is the clock that matters as it is the one used for the purpose of the ticket. Most CEO's are too lazy and do not bother to consult the machine clock but simply use their hand held computer clock. Although a 10 minute discrepency is substantial it is possible and therefore you have an area to explore.

You need the photos taken to see if a photo of the machine clock was taken prior to the issue of the PCN and the log book will show whether the CEO consulted the machine clock and recorded it.

If neither of the above show that this was done then you will need to argue with the authority that the DfT guidance requires that the hand held computer is synchronised with the machine clock but this was not done and therefore they do not have conclusive evidence against you as it is quite possible that the hand held clock was 10 minutes faster than the hand held computer clock.

Another thing about the photos and log book is that there may not be a photo of the expired ticket and the CEO may not have recorded in the log book the tickets expiry time. Without this then regardless of the clock issue they have no evidence against you.

Obviously, if you are unable to get such info before the discount deadline you need to judge whether you think it worthwhile persuing. If not, then remember what I've told you so next time your informal appeal will have more bite.

pepperwhitemini

So you agree that you were in the wrong by overstaying your ticket.

You now want to find a way of wriggling out of it?

pogofish

On the clock thing?

I've noticed for some time now that many of the clocks on the ticket machines here are often significantly out - By as much as 30 minutes across a single street.

What might the position be for a challenge based on poor maintenance/not being able to tell the time in the first place? Or is the definitive time the one on the enforcer's machine?