National Rail / Transpennine Express

Danyúl_II

Firstly let me say that I appreciate and understand that purchasing a ticket using a young persons railcard and then using said ticket on train without producing the said railcard makes the ticket invalid.

I do have a young persons railcard, and have done for 4 years now.

I travelled tonight from Leeds to Manchester and back, and bought 2 advance tickets via National Rail website for £4.30 and £3.75 return, £8.05 in total for whole journey.

As I was going to the football I decided to remove stuff from my wallet, Student Card, NI card, EIII etc etc, and must have removed my rail card also.

Hence when I was on the journey to Manc I was unable to produce my railcard, so I said to the conductor "I am more than willing to pay the difference saved by using my railcard", so which he said "no, you'll pay the cost of a brand new ticket without railcard, which is £15.90 one way". I said no chance at all, it's an honest mistake and I didn't have the money on me. He asked how much I have on me and I said about £5, then he said he'd be taking down my details and issueing me with a fine for the £15.90 fare. He said "I am going to have to fine you for it I am afraid", then when he returned 15 minutes later with my ticket in his top pocket and his pad of yellow fine tickets he goes "let's get this sorted out for you then mate" as if he was doing me a favour! I actually realised that I didnt have my railcard on the way to the station, and knew that I had about a fiver in my wallet and didn't bother going to the cash machine as I thought £5 would cover the 30% saving easily and surely I wouldnt be given a bigger fine that that...

I gave him my details without further argueing, and he said I have to write off within 7 days to either a) pay fine or b) contest fine.

When I got to Manchester I went immediately to the ticket office to enquire about my options for the return journey as I certainly didn't want to find myself charged another £15.90 for not having my railcard - and they were horrible, and said I had no choice but to purchase another ticket. I was just so angry at them (for being so so so so so unhelpful and basically not being bothered at all about my scenario) and myself (for forgetting card) and was not prepared to pay £8 + £16 + £16 for my total journey. Waited 10 minutes in the queue and when I got to the front the girl behind the desk didn't want to know of my problem and tried to just dismiss me, so I thought I would give her at least a bit of an inconvenience and asked her to get somebody else to speak to me. She was rushing around for about 5 minutes finding her manager who rather rudely informed me "can't do anything for you, lad". Cheers!

I refused to buy a new ticket for £16 and decided that I would just get on the train and give false details to the conductor should I be threatened with another fine, as I was severely pi**ed off by then and had had enough.

On return journey I shown my ticket, kept quiet, and the conductor didn't ask for my railcard - so no further fine. Luckily enough I am potentially just £16 down..

Now this isn't just me being petty, or stroppy or having a bad attitude, but it's an honest mistake, I offered to pay the difference before the conductor even mentioned any fine and I went to the ticket office to see what I could do before I made the return journey. I understand the conductor has a job to do, but he was really rude, and actually took my tickets off me and said "I will deal with you in a few minutes when I come back". Horrible horrible attitude, and made me feel quite uncomfortable.

Question is, if I send photocopy of my railcard, tickets used and the fine letter and then dispute the fine with a letter am I likely to be let off? I know I will only be £16 out of pocket, but absolutely everybody makes mistakes and I feel it's really unfair for me to pay this when I do have a railcard and am prepared to prove it..

Idiots!

/rant

System

honest misktake or not you were in the wrong . get over it !

Norfolk_Jim

Yes you have a railcard but the ticket you travelled with is only valid when presented together with the railcard in question. Unfortunately you forgot yours so the ticket you travelled on was not valid. Afraid you dont have a leg to stand on. Count yourself lucky you got away with the return journey. Sorry not to be very sympathetic, but I dont see you have any case to be angry at anyone escept yourself in this instance. Chalk it down to experience.

Danyúl_II

Norfolk_Jim wrote: »

Yes you have a railcard but the ticket you travelled with is only valid when presented together with the railcard in question. Unfortunately you forgot yours so the ticket you travelled on was not valid. Afraid you dont have a leg to stand on. Count yourself lucky you got away with the return journey. Sorry not to be very sympathetic, but I dont see you have any case to be angry at anyone escept yourself in this instance. Chalk it down to experience.

Nah, I know the ticket was invalid due to not having railcard, but I am more annoyed with the general attitude of the conductor and the staff at the ticket desk at Manchester Piccadilly station.

gemmacarolyn

Same thing happened to my brother and I TOTALLY sympathise with you. It absolutely STINKS that they do not give you a chance to prove yourself: You should be able to send a copy of your rail card as proof of your mistake and that should be that. Having to buy two tickets is disgusting-and they wonder why people hate public transport?!!?

ann_marie77

Dany!l_II wrote: »

Nah, I know the ticket was invalid due to not having railcard, but I am more annoyed with the general attitude of the conductor and the staff at the ticket desk at Manchester Piccadilly station.

To be honest they are only doing their job, nothing in you post states that they were impolite to you, they just stated the facts and rules and stuck to them.

You have to understand that they can not bend the rules for you. To do so the chances are they would get into serious trouble with their senior bosses, possibly risking disaplinary action against them and the risk of losing their jobs, which is more important to them.

I think you have learnt an expensive lesson. I would just put it down to that and remember to carry your card in future.

Danyúl_II

ann_marie77 wrote: »

To be honest they are only doing their job, nothing in you post states that they were impolite to you, they just stated the facts and rules and stuck to them.

You have to understand that they can not bend the rules for you. To do so the chances are they would get into serious trouble with their senior bosses, possibly risking disaplinary action against them and the risk of losing their jobs, which is more important to them.

I think you have learnt an expensive lesson. I would just put it down to that and remember to carry your card in future.

Oh, absolutely! I know it was my fault, and the rules are that no card no valid ticket. But his attitude towards me left a lot to be desired, starting from taking my ticket and stuffing it into his top pocket and walking off to being completely patronising "so I am going to explain to you why you're being fined now". Yeah I know, I haven't got my railcard, I know why you've got your little fine booklet out.

It seemed very much like he was on commission for slapping a £16 fine onto me.

The people in the Piccadilly ticket office were disgraceful, though. I am more angry with them than with the conductor. I shall send off a letter tomorrow with photocopy of railcard and tickets via registered post and see what comes of it. At least it will arrive with them within 7 days of fine and then if they won't overturn fine I will just pay it then - worth a bash at least

gemmacarolyn

I would love to know how it turns out for you Danyul! Keep me posted?

andyrules

Good luck, Danyul, hope they accept a genuine error and save the 'book throwing' for the obvious thieves.

People should be encouraged to use the rail. :rolleyes:

Freddie_Snowbits

gemmacarolyn wrote: »

Same thing happened to my brother and I TOTALLY sympathise with you. It absolutely STINKS that they do not give you a chance to prove yourself: You should be able to send a copy of your rail card as proof of your mistake and that should be that. Having to buy two tickets is disgusting-and they wonder why people hate public transport?!!?

The condition on the Ticket is that it is valid with a Railcard. OP travelled without his Railcard, by their misfortune, and did not have a valid ticket.

That is all part of Life's rich tapestry, and does not warrant more that a few words to that.

ShelfStacker_3

andyrules wrote: »

Good luck, Danyul, hope they accept a genuine error and save the 'book throwing' for the obvious thieves.

People should be encouraged to use the rail. :rolleyes:

Yeah, because they should be able to use their SUPER TRAIN CONDUCTOR MIND READING POWERS to discern that he's one of those really nice and totally upstanding people who don't have a valid ticket, rather than one of those totally-identical-looking and overall indistinguishable nasty sods who are out to travel for free and will lie in order to do so.

There was a policy, they applied it, the OP admitted fault, they were in the wrong. But no, apparently the conductors should have known they were legit!

Yet another example of "common sense" apparently meaning "clairvoyance".