Care home fees & deprivation of assets

monkeyspanner

The government's initiative on dementia, and their assertion that early diagnosis is important raises an interesting point in relation to deliberate deprivation of assets. Does the diagnosis itself put someone in the position where they have to watch all their expediture and consider if it is absolutely necessary?

margaretclare

monkeyspanner wrote: »

It seems daft but this would probably be seen as an unnecessary expenditure and therefore deliberate deprivation. How does the council prove intent? I think it is likely that it would be "guilty until proven innocent" and you would have to demonstrate lack of intent.

It's a darned insult. How dare some jobsworth pontificate about what is and what isn't 'necessary expenditure'?

I recently spent a couple of grand in upgrading our bathroom and having a 'low-profile' shower enclosure installed. Reason: I wanted DH to be able to get into the shower when he came home from hospital. With a stiff leg it was going to be difficult to negotiate the higher 'step-in' that we had in the previous shower enclosure. This is as low as possible.

When the rehab people came round to discuss the set-up we have at home I told them that this was in progress. 'Oh but that isn't necessary' I was told. 'Hospital policy is that all that is necessary is for him to have a daily strip-wash'. They even offered to arrange someone to come in and do this for him.

So, what is seen as necessary to one person may not be completely unnecessary to someone else.

I'm often being told that it's not necessary for us to have the expense of a car - after all, haven't we got free bus passes? Again, others have different ideas about what's necessary.

Errata

It's a darned insult. How dare some jobsworth pontificate about what is and what isn't 'necessary expenditure'

Margaret, the line has to be drawn somewhere and by its very nature people will fall either side of it.
A retired person who has a small private pension and savings which are taxed and whose income and savings disqualify them from any financial help may feel deeply resentful that their taxes are funding the care of someone who has spent their money on non-necessities.

Errata

monkeyspanner wrote: »

The government's initiative on dementia, and their assertion that early diagnosis is important raises an interesting point in relation to deliberate deprivation of assets. Does the diagnosis itself put someone in the position where they have to watch all their expediture and consider if it is absolutely necessary?

Early days yet, but this could prove to be quite a complex issue.

weanie

I share Monkeyspanner's concerns.
If either myself or my husband ever suspect that our 'senior moments' may be heralding the onset of dementia, we will have to work very quickly through our combined DIY, holiday and 'wish' list before approaching our GP. We don't want Big Brother limitng our holidays to a very rare day trip to Blackpool do we?
Or might I be laying bare our advance plans here for deliberate deprivation of assets?

monkeyspanner

weanie wrote: »

I share Monkeyspanner's concerns.
If either myself or my husband ever suspect that our 'senior moments' may be heralding the onset of dementia, we will have to work very quickly through our combined DIY, holiday and 'wish' list before approaching our GP. We don't want Big Brother limitng our holidays to a very rare day trip to Blackpool do we?
Or might I be laying bare our advance plans here for deliberate deprivation of assets?

This is the problem with trying to legislate for behaviour. You could say the someone who has spent their money on alcohol, tobacco and gambling all their lives had indulged in unecessary expenditure and therefore has deliberately deprived themselves of assets. So should not be assisted with their care home fees. The fact is this would be impossible to prove because each expediture is in fairly small amounts. In reality the council are looking for large lumps of expediture and transfers of capital. So it is a way of taxing the financially prudent (or fortunate) and the state getting hold of assets which fall below the inheritance tax allowances.
Of course this is a generalisation and not all people who end up with little or no savings have contributed to their misfortune. They could have simply invested in banking shares!

Errata

MS - "the state getting hold of assets" is one way of looking at it. I think the state is actually protecting the tax take of citizens and ensuring it is used prudently.
At the moment funding of care home places is decided case by case, and I can't see that being changed.

weanie

It may be down to a person's point of view.
At this point in time [as I am extremely, fortunate not to be a dementia sufferer myself yet], I can say with all my faculties intact that I would consider being told NOT to spend my money on the purposes I had assigned to be unacceptable.
I would assume that if I were to suffer from dementia in the future, it would not be something I could have prevented. Along with trying to keep generally healthy and behave like a good citizen, I would welcome any lifestyle suggestions which could prevent the likelihood of developing dementia in the future.
I agree that we face a funding crisis for an ageing population but I feel the provision of care should be equitable.

Errata

Weanie, I think many of us are worried about what might happen to our assets should we need residential care. The difficulty that central and local government faces is not being able to provide sufficient care and support to enable people to stay in their own homes for as long as possible as the money to fund this is being eaten up by funding residential care places.
I can't think of a fairer system than the one that operates at the moment. If someone can fund their residential care they should and if they can't it will be paid for by the taxpayer.
Perhaps the important thing for us all to remember is that very, very few people will need residential care now and for many years to come.

Savvy_Sue

weanie wrote: »

Along with trying to keep generally healthy and behave like a good citizen, I would welcome any lifestyle suggestions which could prevent the likelihood of developing dementia in the future.

At the risk of straying well off topic, I think you'll find quite a bit of information at various levels of readability here, here, here and here. And there's more if you google!