Care home fees & deprivation of assets

Mojisola

sloughflint wrote: »

If it was me, I'd go ahead and argue until the cows came home. It's all about intention of DoA. Here OP is clearly trying to keep the person out of a care home environment for as long as possible.I dare say one year's care home fees would come to more than 20k.

Exactly my sentiments. Go for it, anj. Your mother will have the benefit of staying with you in comfort.

EdInvestor

anj_S wrote: »

yes there have been murmurings from my mums social worker about care homes....Incidently my mum does own her own house (worth around £100k) and does not have alot of capital about £10k, so we would be looking at equity release...

Just as a matter of interest, let's say after listening to the muttering about care homes, Mum decided on the basis "it's now or never" that she was going to take the cruise of a lifetime before her incarceration.

So she does equity release, raises say 30k and then takes the OP as her companion for said luxury cruise.

What would be the attitude of the authorities to this expenditure when she was finally assessed for payment of her care fees?

weanie

The scenario of a cruise of a lifetime - or other such costly treat seems very reasonable doesn't it? I wonder if others have first hand knowledge of the response from the authorities?

margaretclare

EdInvestor wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, let's say after listening to the muttering about care homes, Mum decided on the basis "it's now or never" that she was going to take the cruise of a lifetime before her incarceration.

So she does equity release, raises say 30k and then takes the OP as her companion for said luxury cruise.

What would be the attitude of the authorities to this expenditure when she was finally assessed for payment of her care fees?

What a wonderful idea, Ed. For 'incarceration' read 'life sentence without possibility of parole'. Just the sort of thing I might consider if I was in similar circumstances. 'Cruise of a lifetime' - no, but there are many other possibilities.

exil

EdInvestor wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, let's say after listening to the muttering about care homes, Mum decided on the basis "it's now or never" that she was going to take the cruise of a lifetime before her incarceration.

So she does equity release, raises say 30k and then takes the OP as her companion for said luxury cruise.

What would be the attitude of the authorities to this expenditure when she was finally assessed for payment of her care fees?

This would I think be see as DOA. Doesn't matter whether she takes the holiday on her own or with someone else. In other words spending money ON YOURSELF is seen as DOA if it's not for normal living expenses. I guess some common sense would be shown - a coach trip to Blackpool would probably be ok.

weanie

In common with many, I have donated money towards a DisneyLand experience for a terminally ill child. There are charities too who can be approached to make a sick child's wish come true by giving funds.

In my situation, I have worked hard all my life and there are plans I have for my own funds for my future. If I felt that my time or health meant a now or never' use of my own money or assets, I would be very keen to take the opportunity to make use of them as I saw fit. I wouldn't see it as deprivation of assets - just an opportunity to enjoy my own assets. I do hope I would not be creating a problem for my own children. It is a very unfair responsibility.

Although I am in my fifties and not seventies - I am aware that I can't predict my lifespan or health in later years. The drama last week on BBC - showing the early and rapid health decline of a real life GP [played by Julie Walters] brought that home to many loud and clear.

Tibbledom

I would suggest you and your mother seek advice from either Help the Aged or Age Concern. There is also a lot of useful information on their website relating to helping people to remain in their homes as well as on equity release, care home fees, benefits and all sorts of other issues at

http://www.helptheaged.org.uk/

and

http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/

In my own town there is an Age Concern shop, and at the back of the shop is an advice and resource centre with advisers to help. There may be something similar where you live.

There are other organizations such as the CAB who could help but in reality enquiries of this nature are few and far between and if you have an Age Concern or Help the Aged nearby that is where I would go first for help.

I would endorse the comments that you should not get too hung up on the deprivation of assets rules. I would be more concerned with doing the right thing for your mother and that she is happy with and wants to do. In the event the council try to claim deprivation of assets you have a lot of ammunition to fight back with. And the situation may never arise where deprivation of assets ever becomes an issue anyway.

margaretclare

weanie wrote: »

In common with many, I have donated money towards a DisneyLand experience for a terminally ill child. There are charities too who can be approached to make a sick child's wish come true by giving funds.

In my situation, I have worked hard all my life and there are plans I have for my own funds for my future. If I felt that my time or health meant a now or never' use of my own money or assets, I would be very keen to take the opportunity to make use of them as I saw fit. I wouldn't see it as deprivation of assets - just an opportunity to enjoy my own assets. I do hope I would not be creating a problem for my own children. It is a very unfair responsibility.

I must be one of the very few people who ever flew from Gatwick to Orlando and never went near any of the Disney sites!! I was doing family history at the time and some of the discoveries I made were as far-fetched as anything that Disney dreamed up.

I have my own favourite charities - I recently helped to buy a piece of land to create a new forest near Colchester. However, I find it extremely distasteful to be told that the 'holiday of a lifetime' either alone or with someone else, would be considered 'deprivation of assets' whereas a coach trip to Blackpool would be OK. How patronising. After all, going on coach trips is what we oldies do, isn't it? So that's all right then. Go on your coach trip, madam, before we lock the doors on you for ever.

Although I am in my fifties and not seventies - I am aware that I can't predict my lifespan or health in later years. The drama last week on BBC - showing the early and rapid health decline of a real life GP [played by Julie Walters] brought that home to many loud and clear.

I didn't need a televised demonstration of this. I spoke to my youngest DD at tea-time one day 6 years ago, by 9 pm she was dead. And DH and I were on our 'holiday of a lifetime' in the Rhine valley last autumn, a couple of weeks later he developed an infection and nearly died of septicaemia. Anything can come out of the blue, so live for the time you have now and be grateful for every day that dawns.

As I see it we are all entitled to enjoy our assets in whatever way seems good to us. Like you, I worked for what I have now. Although I'm still helping my eldest GD and will continue to do so just because she appreciates it, on the whole I think the young people should make their own way in the world just as we've had to. Well, that's my take on it anyway.

monkeyspanner

anj_S wrote: »

Hmm you have definately given me some food for thought there guys. It seems such a shame that we have to worry about "how this will appear" as all we genuinally want to do is help my mum.

yes there have been murmurings from my mums social worker about care homes etc, so I would def have to discuss plan with her and perhaps get something in writing if they thought what we had in mind would be of great benefit to my mum as well.

Incidently my mum does own her own house (worth around £100k) and does not have alot of capital about £10k, so we would be looking at equity release for the money for the extn. So if she did go into a home and her house was sold it would take quite some time before she was down to £22K anyhow even if we had taken some money out of it for the extn.

However with regard to the 6 months rule and then being able to claim off me (if it was considered depreciation of assets) is that 6 months between the time of the using of money and the date a care home was reqd, or is it 6 months from the using of the money and the date when local authority financial help was sought. Because obviously it would be several years from going into a home until she was looked for fee assistance.

My memory is that it is 6 months from the gift but I can't find the reference to confirm this.

If your mum needed a care home then you could look at a buying a care anuity with the net proceeds of the house to pay a regular income until death in which case the council may not need to be involved. The downside of this is that the capital used to pay for the anuity is lost. Edinvestor responds to posts on this subject regularly.

monkeyspanner

EdInvestor wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, let's say after listening to the muttering about care homes, Mum decided on the basis "it's now or never" that she was going to take the cruise of a lifetime before her incarceration.

So she does equity release, raises say 30k and then takes the OP as her companion for said luxury cruise.

What would be the attitude of the authorities to this expenditure when she was finally assessed for payment of her care fees?

It seems daft but this would probably be seen as an unnecessary expenditure and therefore deliberate deprivation. How does the council prove intent? I think it is likely that it would be "quilty until proven inocent" and you would have to demonstrate lack of intent.