Tesco Lorry Drivers earn £47600 pa

omelette451

exil wrote: »

- need to start in your 20s not your 50s

There's no job for which this is true. The recently-introduced age discrimination laws put a stop to this. 'Older' people have even been accepted onto pilot training schemes, something few people thought would ever happen.

GreyPilgrim

omelette451 wrote: »

There's no job for which this is true. The recently-introduced age discrimination laws put a stop to this. 'Older' people have even been accepted onto pilot training schemes, something few people thought would ever happen.

Could his point about "needing to start in your 20's not your 50's" have been a reference to salaries / experience?

It's fine starting a new career path on an apprentice pay scale in you're 20's, but a lot harder in your fifties.

Just a thought.

SammyD_2

omelette451 wrote: »

There's no job for which this is true. The recently-introduced age discrimination laws put a stop to this. 'Older' people have even been accepted onto pilot training schemes, something few people thought would ever happen.

Sorry, but this is very niave - try getting a job in the City (well, if they had them anymore) with no experience in your 30's - if you don't have a few years under your belt by then forget it.

poppy10_2

sb44 wrote: »

I thought you had to show your pay chits for the previous 6 months or whatever when applying for a mortgage?

Conrad wrote: »

Rob

What possible motive would I have to put this thread up??

I have both clients pay slips and P60s.

What, like these ones?

Snooze

pararct wrote: »

With a little inside knowledge of Tesco in Weybridge. I would say this is possible albeit in very limited circumstances.
That said I will add a caveat.

The ability to do this will mean a hell of a lot of overtime is being worked. On that basis the Driver in question.
May be in breach of Regulation (EC) 561/2006 (Drivers Hours)
May be in breach of The Working Time Regulations.
May be in breach of his workplace agreement.
May be in breach of local Health and Safety rules.

Certain backhanders have in the past been made to shift supervisors to ensure certain names are bumped up the overtime lists.At the same time favours are afforded when the relevant percentage of tacho discs are analysed with 'some being left out'.
(Not necessarily this depot but it has occurred in the past)

There are always ways and means around doing anything. Tesco management will not be too concerned, provided the work gets done and it does not come back to bite them in the bum.
I worked in a Supermarket Distribution depot for 16 years. That makes me qualified to make this assertion.
In any 3 Month period at least 50% of employed drivers will have infringements on their drivers hours records.
Haulage Company's and Supermarket (Own Account Operators) are required to 'speak to drivers' to inform them of their errors and demand compliance. If that compliance is not forthcoming then they are supposed to take them into the disciplinary process. That rarely happens and the DOT are so stretched they only inspect records themselves where non compliance is reported to them or an incident has occurred.


This chap may well have earned that sum of money but it is almost certain he will have bent some rules in order to have done it.
He will not be doing his health and good and will have little time for family and friends.

Your reasoning would hold water - possibly - were it not Tesco you were talking about. Tesco simply don't "do" infringements, period. If you get an infringement as a Tesco driver then you'll be hauled in on a disciplinary and then if you do it again you're straight out of the door. Why do you think all their drivers dawdle along at 40mph on single carriageways country roads? Not because they want to !!!! you off or hang the job out, but simply because of the fact that 40mph is the speed limit for an artic on national limit single carriageway roads (cars can do 60 legally).

Also when you factor in the 48hr Working Time Directive rules (which Tesco rigidly adhere to - others don't so much as the Periods of Availability which don't count towards your Working Time can be, umm, 'manipulated' somewhat ) there simply aren't enough 'available' hours to rack up the kind of figures talked about in the original post.

Rob

Lotus-eater

Snooze wrote: »

Your reasoning would hold water - possibly - were it not Tesco you were talking about. Tesco simply don't "do" infringements, period. If you get an infringement as a Tesco driver then you'll be hauled in on a disciplinary and then if you do it again you're straight out of the door. Why do you think all their drivers dawdle along at 40mph on single carriageways country roads? Not because they want to !!!! you off or hang the job out, but simply because of the fact that 40mph is the speed limit for an artic on national limit single carriageway roads (cars can do 60 legally).

Also when you factor in the 48hr Working Time Directive rules (which Tesco rigidly adhere to - others don't so much as the Periods of Availability which don't count towards your Working Time can be, umm, 'manipulated' somewhat ) there simply aren't enough 'available' hours to rack up the kind of figures talked about in the original post.

Rob

Saying Tescos will break the law is a bit like saying a politician will have kinky sex. Both want to do it, but both are too afraid of being caught out.

In retrospect, probably Tescos are more afraid.

pararct

Snooze wrote: »

Your reasoning would hold water - possibly - were it not Tesco you were talking about. Tesco simply don't "do" infringements, period. If you get an infringement as a Tesco driver then you'll be hauled in on a disciplinary and then if you do it again you're straight out of the door. Why do you think all their drivers dawdle along at 40mph on single carriageways country roads? Not because they want to !!!! you off or hang the job out, but simply because of the fact that 40mph is the speed limit for an artic on national limit single carriageway roads (cars can do 60 legally).

Also when you factor in the 48hr Working Time Directive rules (which Tesco rigidly adhere to - others don't so much as the Periods of Availability which don't count towards your Working Time can be, umm, 'manipulated' somewhat ) there simply aren't enough 'available' hours to rack up the kind of figures talked about in the original post.

Rob

You work for Tesco then do you? I come from the Supermarket distribution industry. I headed up a Trade Union presence at a RDC for over 10 years. In addition I sat on the TUC panel that worked out how The Working Time Regulations would be applied to The Road Transport Industry. The employers also had a panel, both reported to Government and the legislation you see today is a compromise of what both panels wanted.
I have ex colleagues that now work for Tesco and they tell me the management style/regime is more lax than it was at my ex employer.

I suspect their drivers as any would drive at 40mph on single carriageway as that is the speed limit for heavy's. What this has to do with infringements though I don't understand what you are driving at? Although the tacho records the speed it does not know the ambient speed limit for the stretch of road being driven at any particular time. On that basis the only infringement speed wise that can be picked up from tacho analysis is where the recorded speed passes 60mph the speed limit for motorways.

Fixed gatso sites now have the technology to differentiate between a heavy and a car by its radar signature. If it sees a heavy over the limit then is snaps a photo and the driver is £60 and 3 points worse off. Another excellent reason why most of them stick to the limit.

All heavy's now are subject to the fitting of speed limiters. These are set to a maximum speed which could be anywhere from 55 to 60mph. Safeway's for example the fleet was set at 56mph, Tesco were a little faster as they often passed me on the motorway. Waitrose was set to the most conservative as I always used to pass those.

Whilst clearly you have an understanding of periods of availability you cannot grasp the fact that how they are applied are subject to use in the local site agreements. This would be the same agreement that sets the 12 or 13 week reference period for calculation of average hours. For example it is perfectly acceptable for a driver to work in excess of 48 hours per week right up to the limits dictated by drivers hours rules possibly 60+ so long as over the 12 or 13 week reference period average weekly hours are no more than 48.
This would include holidays/sickness where the driver was not racking up any working time. So a 12 week reference period gives a potential of 12x48=576 hours.
Take 10 days paid holiday out (2x48=90 hours) and the driver still has 576 hours to work over 10 weeks and has already drawn holiday pay for 90 of those hours.

In addition the agreement will set out the acceptable use of POA's (periods of availability). Anyone that has done supermarket deliveries knows that a hazard of the job is waiting times at store delivery points. On arrival at a store there could be 2 or 3 other wagons awaiting unloading with an average of 1 hour per wagon. Application of a POA in these circumstances is perfectly acceptable in that the 2 or 3 hours waiting time can be removed from weekly worked hours. In most cases and I certainly used to do it those hours would be spent on the bunk having a snooze.
So the driver is still drawing his hourly rate over whatever waiting time he racks up over a week and still has hours left to undertake overtime should he/she wish too.
You make it sound like this is a dodgy practice, it is not provided the local agreement provides for it.
For the record I negotiated the agreement at my own workplace and we never allowed POA's to be removed from working time. Some did some did not, it was usual to allow the drivers a ballot on whatever proposals were on the table. Due to other terms and conditions considerations it did not suite every depot to do it.

All that said the potential is there for overtime to be worked, it however still remains unlikely that the figure quoted could be hit. Although I would not rule it out completely.

Snooze

pararct wrote: »

You work for Tesco then do you? I come from the Supermarket distribution industry. I headed up a Trade Union presence at a RDC for over 10 years. In addition I sat on the TUC panel that worked out how The Working Time Regulations would be applied to The Road Transport Industry. The employers also had a panel, both reported to Government and the legislation you see today is a compromise of what both panels wanted.
I have ex colleagues that now work for Tesco and they tell me the management style/regime is more lax than it was at my ex employer.

I couldn't give a toss about your history. As far as driver hours regs and traffic law goes, Tesco are probably the most strict in the whole of the UK. If you want to disagree on this then go and get a job driving their vehicles and flaunt the regs and see what happens.

I suspect their drivers as any would drive at 40mph on single carriageway as that is the speed limit for heavy's.

Clearly you've never been a wagon driver because if you had you would know that the majority don't stick to the limit at all, it is generally only the supermarket drivers that do because of the Spy in the Cab (see below).

What this has to do with infringements though I don't understand what you are driving at? Although the tacho records the speed it does not know the ambient speed limit for the stretch of road being driven at any particular time. On that basis the only infringement speed wise that can be picked up from tacho analysis is where the recorded speed passes 60mph the speed limit for motorways.

That just proves how little you know about the industry. All the supermarket vehicles are fitted with 'Spy in the Cab' as it's known, and this is a tracking device that is fitted in the cab of every truck and monitors your every move from your current location and speed through to what mode you've got your tacho switched to, what your engine revs are, fuel monitoring, etc etc. When the information that these gather is downloaded they can tell straight away whether you've broken any speed limits or not from comparing the GPS trace with the speed recorded from the Spy in the Cab.

Fixed gatso sites now have the technology to differentiate between a heavy and a car by its radar signature. If it sees a heavy over the limit then is snaps a photo and the driver is £60 and 3 points worse off. Another excellent reason why most of them stick to the limit.

You are correct, but most drivers still drive on the limiter and just slow down for the cameras as they know where they are.

All heavy's now are subject to the fitting of speed limiters. These are set to a maximum speed which could be anywhere from 55 to 60mph.

Again, your lack of knowledge shows through. All new vehicles in the EU over 3.5 tonnes are now restricted by a speed limiter to 85km/h (52mph) but there is a tolerance allowed to a max of 90km/h (56mph) and this is what most are set at. If it's set over 90km/h then it isn't legal and VOSA will go to town on you.

Safeway's for example the fleet was set at 56mph, Tesco were a little faster as they often passed me on the motorway.

No, they weren't. Tesco's are also set at 56. If you were getting passed by them then yours wasn't set at 56, simple.

Waitrose was set to the most conservative as I always used to pass those.

Whilst clearly you have an understanding of periods of availability you cannot grasp the fact that how they are applied are subject to use in the local site agreements. This would be the same agreement that sets the 12 or 13 week reference period for calculation of average hours. For example it is perfectly acceptable for a driver to work in excess of 48 hours per week right up to the limits dictated by drivers hours rules possibly 60+ so long as over the 12 or 13 week reference period average weekly hours are no more than 48.
This would include holidays/sickness where the driver was not racking up any working time. So a 12 week reference period gives a potential of 12x48=576 hours.
Take 10 days paid holiday out (2x48=90 hours) and the driver still has 576 hours to work over 10 weeks and has already drawn holiday pay for 90 of those hours.

I am fully aware and conversant with the EU Working Time Regs for drivers and I understand perfectly well that the 48hr week is based on average hours over a 3 month reference period . However, it doesn't matter how you try to dress it up, with a £29k per annum basic wage there is no possible way that £18.5k of overtime can be done legally with the way Tesco works. You would have to do a serious amount of POA 'manipulating' and there isn't a hope in hell of you getting away with that at Tesco where all your moves are constantly monitored.

In addition the agreement will set out the acceptable use of POA's (periods of availability). Anyone that has done supermarket deliveries knows that a hazard of the job is waiting times at store delivery points. On arrival at a store there could be 2 or 3 other wagons awaiting unloading with an average of 1 hour per wagon. Application of a POA in these circumstances is perfectly acceptable in that the 2 or 3 hours waiting time can be removed from weekly worked hours. In most cases and I certainly used to do it those hours would be spent on the bunk having a snooze.

But once again you are showing your lack of knowledge because Tesco drivers have very little in the way of POA in comparison to other general hauliers. Tesco store deliveries work on a booking system so it isn't often that there will ever be much waiting time. The only real time they'd have any POA is when they're at one of their own supplier's waiting for a back-haul. Unlike Morrisons for example, where the driver sits in the cab or canteen while the warehouse staff unload the wagon (which would count as POA), Tesco drivers have to help with the unloading themselves so would count as 'other work' and not POA.

So the driver is still drawing his hourly rate over whatever waiting time he racks up over a week and still has hours left to undertake overtime should he/she wish too.
You make it sound like this is a dodgy practice, it is not provided the local agreement provides for it.
For the record I negotiated the agreement at my own workplace and we never allowed POA's to be removed from working time. Some did some did not, it was usual to allow the drivers a ballot on whatever proposals were on the table. Due to other terms and conditions considerations it did not suite every depot to do it.

!!!!!!? You cannot 'remove' POA from working time :rotfl: . Just who do you think you are?!? :rotfl: It's a legal part of the EU driver regs and must be adhered to. There are of course ways where it can be 'manipulated' to ones' advantage, for example setting the tacho mode to POA when it should be 'other work' in order for you to increase your available working hours.

All that said the potential is there for overtime to be worked, it however still remains unlikely that the figure quoted could be hit. Although I would not rule it out completely.

It can't be achieved legally, period.

Rob

exil

omelette451 wrote: »

There's no job for which this is true. The recently-introduced age discrimination laws put a stop to this. 'Older' people have even been accepted onto pilot training schemes, something few people thought would ever happen.

Try starting in the following careers at 50

member of the regular armed forces

professional sportsman/woman

police (the age limit is 56)

fire service (no upper limit - but for instance Lincolnshire fire service says
"it’s not unusual to see new Fire Fighters in their 40s." - not 50s or 60s!)

pararct

You don't say what your experience is other than you have driven a wagon and worked as a Transport manager?

Someone is pulling your plonker about the versatility of the Logiq type GPS systems (spy in the cab as you call them). Whilst they do provide a rough position of a vehicle when queried from the home base it is not good enough to be able to cross reference speed to actual part of a road being driven upon.

That would require military grade GPS equipment which at best only pinpoints a positon to within 15 to 20 metres.

Any employer Tesco included would be crucified within the employment tribunal if it was to try and sack employees on such dubious data.
If this is the case then clearly there is no Trade Union on the site and the Tesco managment style plays on the ignorance of employment law in its staff.

I assert again you need to get your head around the fact a local agreement must be in place. Local agreement means Pay, Terms and Conditions and Working Practices assertaining to a local depot. 10 depots could mean 10 different agreements.
On that basis whilst it may not be possible to earn the sum mentioned in the thread at the site where your mate works it may well be possible at other sites. In addition some Tesco sites Weybridge and Welham Green were I think in receipt of a London Allowance.

The definition of POA is well established here is an example it took me all of 5 seconds to find via google..

Periods of Availability examples

• Expected wait for loading/unloading and you are free to dispose of your time (such as waiting in canteen or rest area)
• Expected delay at a customers' premises (where you are free to dispose of your time)
• Expected waiting time with broken down vehicle
• Accompanying vehicle being transported by boat or rail
• Foreseeable time waiting at frontiers
• Double Manning (i.e. travelling in the cab as a relief driver)
• Reporting for work, but you are not required to undertake duties, but are to told to remain available on site for a foreseeable period of time
• Expected wait is known, but the driver remains in the cab for reasons of safety e.g. transporting dangerous goods

http://www.1stclassdrivers.co.uk/poa.php

And as before POA's may be removed from working time. Again this is a feature of the Local Agreement.