Great ‘How to haggle down rent’ Hunt

tomstickland

chiny wrote: »

The idea that tenants might do gardening is laughable :rotfl:

Why is that laughable?

500Triumph650

chiny wrote: »

Interesting that MSE takes one side; exactly how is arguing to pay less rent, money saving for the other half of us.

The idea that tenants might do gardening is laughable

Only one tenant has ever asked for a rent reduction

Are posters sure they want to make notoriously fraught relationships more combative ?

I will answer the above points in turn.

MSE is a customer help site. Any landlord is a vendor and by definition is 'the other half' of the deal that is not catered for here.

We did the gardening at our last place and had to do a two day deep clean before we were comfortable about moving in.

We got a £50pcm reduction when we took our current place and when this tenancy runs out we will be moving and I expect to get a 3 bed instead of the current 2 beds for at least £50 less than I am paying now.

It's not a relationship. It's a business deal. Combative? Only if you don't understand what bargaining is all about. You are probably one of these folk who think that your tenants owe you a good living even when everyone else is having to cut back.

Here's a newsflash. The price of anything involving property is only going one way in the near future. I'll let you guess which way that is.:rolleyes:

mystic_trev

Alan_Cross wrote: »

.

Many people, and very often of quite modest means (I personally know many buy-to-letters who are financially worse off than your average tenant), have decided to 'buy' this 'consumer product' as an alternative to putting their money into private pensions or savings schemes. These people are often seeking to establish an income for their retirement as much as anything else...

... and here you are, busily encouraging tenants to rebel...

The words Tough and !!!!!! spring to mind. If you've got your business model wrong you've only yourself to blame.

500Triumph650

Alan_Cross wrote: »

All of which neatly - and probably intentionally - sidesteps the issue that buy-to-let is NOT a business for a very large pecentage of those who have engaged in it.

When we are talking rent levels, Martin, you know very well that we are talking sources of income and not capital gain. It is dishonest of anyone to suggest otherwise. Your point about 'investment' is a total red herring - have a word with HMRC and see whether they classify income from rented property as a capital gain from selling an investment.

Many people, and very often of quite modest means (I personally know many buy-to-letters who are financially worse off than your average tenant), have decided to 'buy' this 'consumer product' as an alternative to putting their money into private pensions or savings schemes. These people are often seeking to establish an income for their retirement as much as anything else...

... and here you are, busily encouraging tenants to rebel...

Martin, I think you have realised belatedly that you have failed to think matters through and have, in effect, weighed in yet again on behalf of one set of consumers against another... and are trying unconvincingly to pretend otherwise.

Very sad.

This comes close to being the weakest argument I have ever heard.

Picking up on the "investment" point is particularly lame. We all know that nearly all BTL'ers went into the whole thing mainly for the investment/capital gain side of it. The rent charged was only ever seen as a way to cover the mortgage payments, with a small profit if you were lucky.

johnbakie

Alan_Cross wrote: »

All of which neatly - and probably intentionally - sidesteps the issue that buy-to-let is NOT a business for a very large pecentage of those who have engaged in it.

When we are talking rent levels, Martin, you know very well that we are talking sources of income and not capital gain. It is dishonest of anyone to suggest otherwise. Your point about 'investment' is a total red herring - have a word with HMRC and see whether they classify income from rented property as a capital gain from selling an investment.

Many people, and very often of quite modest means (I personally know many buy-to-letters who are financially worse off than your average tenant), have decided to 'buy' this 'consumer product' as an alternative to putting their money into private pensions or savings schemes. These people are often seeking to establish an income for their retirement as much as anything else...

... and here you are, busily encouraging tenants to rebel...

Martin, I think you have realised belatedly that you have failed to think matters through and have, in effect, weighed in yet again on behalf of one set of consumers against another... and are trying unconvincingly to pretend otherwise.

Very sad.

This just typifies the attitude of Buy to Let landlords, and it makes life miserable for tenants like me.

It IS a business. You are providing customers (tenants) with a service (the most important service they pay for no less) and you do so to make money. What is that if it is not a business?

As Martin has said, this site is for consumers, but a landlord is not a consumer in this context, he is a vendor.

Buy to let is not a passive investment like putting your cash in a pension fund or a bank account or a retail investment fund. Buy to let is not different to me opening a shop, or a restaurant. You provide a service, customers pay for it, and they expect minimum standards and will quite rightly shop around for the best deal, something Martin has always encouraged on this site. If you don't like the offer, then the tenant can just move, and if you can't find anyone else to pay the rent you want then you will very quickly rack up major costs and your business will fail.

If a Landlord chose to make silly choices by buying at the height of boom with rental yields that were completely unattainable then that is foolishness on his part. If a landlord is less well off than his tenants then he probably shouldn't have been allowed to run a highly leveraged business model in the first place. Even private equity and hedge funds don't run at the leverage levels most buy to let landlords seems to think are acceptable.

puffykat2000

matchmade wrote: »

If the gas certificate really hasn't been done, that's illegal and you should simply report the LL to Environmental Health. If he's genuinely breaking tax law, report him anonymously to the Inalnd Revenue. If the LL only takes cash, insist on paying from a bank account so you can prove you are paying the rent. If the property suffers from damp, an ancient heating system and so on - well, it's not nice but it's true of many private householders' properties too. Also £6000 a year may sound a lot, but isn't that when you consider the likely cost of the mortgage and the implied cost of the capital tied up in the property (i.e. the amount of money the LL's losing by not being able to use that capital elsewhere). Finally, if other property is more expensive, you are stuck because you're actually paying the cheapest available rent - so you pays your money and you takes your choice.

You don't have to use an agency, you know. Have you tried the classified ads, or www.gumtree.com (Loads of private landlords advertise there)? Most landlords would consider a delayed payment of the deposit, but you need to really nice to them and persuade them that you are going to be a good tenant, because you are a risk for them too.

We are fabulous tenants and really work hard to keep the place looking good. The gas certificates aren't done anyway near on time and yes this is illegal but if we report we get thrown out. We have asked to do a bank transfer but he has refused on several occasions. We only found his address by accident and aren't sure we know his real name so a bit stuffed on inland revenue.

I don't mind paying £6000 per year but I begrudge a landlord who gets funny with you when you toilet flush system breaks or your heating timer stops working and refuses to fix them. A little bit of outlay from the landlord for the things his contract says he is going to do is what I expect. Everything else we sort for him. So when you compare our total outlay so far as £36,000 and his total outlay so far has been less than £200 I am a bit miffed that he won't do the basics as agreed to repair the property or even do the statutory stuff.

I don't mind paying a higher rent if it will give me better landlord and better living conditions. We are good, reliable, well behaved tenants that are being taken for a ride by this person.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Alan_Cross wrote: »

... and here you are, busily encouraging tenants to rebel...

This is my favourite part of this hilarious post that neatly summarises why so many people are sick of the greedy, short-term attitude of most amateur BTLers (I accept that renting is a necessary and useful option for many and that there are lots of professional LLs who provide a good service).

As a servile, obedient tenant I will make sure I meekly accept all rent increases- after all I cruelly forced my LL into taking out another mortgage, and my main aim in life is for them to pay it off and fatten up their pension.

puffykat2000

Ha ha ha!!!!!

PMSL!!!!!:rotfl:

carolt

puffykat2000 wrote: »

We are fabulous tenants and really work hard to keep the place looking good. The gas certificates aren't done anyway near on time and yes this is illegal but if we report we get thrown out. We have asked to do a bank transfer but he has refused on several occasions. We only found his address by accident and aren't sure we know his real name so a bit stuffed on inland revenue.

I don't mind paying £6000 per year but I begrudge a landlord who gets funny with you when you toilet flush system breaks or your heating timer stops working and refuses to fix them. A little bit of outlay from the landlord for the things his contract says he is going to do is what I expect. Everything else we sort for him. So when you compare our total outlay so far as £36,000 and his total outlay so far has been less than £200 I am a bit miffed that he won't do the basics as agreed to repair the property or even do the statutory stuff.

I don't mind paying a higher rent if it will give me better landlord and better living conditions. We are good, reliable, well behaved tenants that are being taken for a ride by this person.

Failing to do gas safety checks is, I believe, a criminal offence and can land them in prison.

Mould, heating not working etc - all again failing in duties as landlord and could be prosecuted - dangerous for your health.

Do check out other rentals and ASK for rent reductions - as I said before, if you don't ask you don't get.

We lived for 2.5 years in a place with various problems, like you worrying we wouldn't be able to afford anywhere better as our place was the cheapest on the market.

We left there 5.5 years ago - looked on rigfhtmove last week, and discovered that rents in the area were now LOWER than when we left then! - due to the large number of accidental landlords I suppose.

BTW, your landlord must legally have your deposit in a tenancy deposit scheme - any tenancy renewed since ?2006/2007 some time - can't remember exact date - has been legal requirement to register deposit separately - if it's it not been done, that is yet another way your landlord is breaking the law. And it should ensure your landlord returns your deposit when you leave - if he doesn't, SUE.

Insist your landlord gives you a receipt for the rent in cash - and when you're gone, make sure you add telling HMRC about details of all rent paid. In addition, take photos/keep diary of all work not done, mould etc etc so he can be prosecuted when you've left.

There is no reason why you should have to put up with living like this!

Try asking for advice on the Housing, Renting etc Board - some very knowledgeable people there, experts in housing law, will be able to give you much better advice than I can.

First of all - find somewhere else better to live - it doesn't sound as though anything short of locking him up is going to make your landlord improve! :mad:

Good luck.

OH, and you can find his real name by paying £3 to Land Registry, which will give you the name of the registered owner of the property, plus names of any mortgage lenders who lent mortgages against the property - might be revealing as to his financial situation if he's got several mortgages with sub-prime lenders, say.....

And do remember, it works both ways - you don't want to leave because it's a cheap rent, but it's equally in his interest to keep you - if you leave, he's going to have void periods before he can get another tenant, and he's going to have to get all that work/repairs done, as it doesn't sound as though anyone would rent a place in the state it is currently in. Tactfully point out that you'd like to stay, but need it to be properly maintained, or sadly, you'll have to leave. Point out what a great tenant you've been, but that the property needs work.

Lumphammer_2

What website do all the bad landlords and bad tenants use?

All the one's on here are good!

I can only guess that some of the good landlords on here aren't as good as they think they are - and some of the good tenants aren't as good either.

I do feel that tenancy agreements could be better - clearer and simpler. Both parties would then have a better understanding of their obligations.