bathroom fitter/plumber problems - am I legally committed?

faustina_2

Apologies for long story. last year nice old family firm installed my new condensing boiler - the dad was boss and his sons made up the team. the dad was the one I spoke to most and he kept my house clean, was polite etc etc - so anyway - we're doing one of the bathrooms now and got a quote from them, amongst others. I've only seen one of the sons for this. The dad seems to have retired - or maybe he only does the boilers part, Quote was ok, he sounded like he knew what he was doing, albeit abit "you can't do this" when other people who quoted said I could, however I decided he was the best of them and that we could work together and I accepted his estimate verbally. he was going to fit only - I am buying everything. So when I started choosing taps I had to ask what pressure I had as they're all classified low, high, one bar etc. He said I could only have the lowest pressure - less than 0.5 bar because my whole system was "old fashioned". My plan is for a modern bathroom and it seems ninety per cent of modern taps are for a higher pressure than this. I spent days and days trying to find something. Each place I called said "most people just fit a little pump to get the pressure" - I heard this from almost everyone I spoke to. I spoke to the bathroom fitter three times and he got more and more irritated each time I called "your whole system is too old for this - you have a gravity fed boiler" "when they do these high end modern things they assume that the people have updated their system" hmmm - I though that's what you and your dad were meant to have done last april - and finally "look - it would cost at least two grand to raise the pressure and put this pump in". He didn't say this like he WANTED me to pay him, more like it was a total impossibility short of ripping out my entire house and starting again. We haven't fixed a date because you have to wait until everything arrives in case anything is broken

I am getting hacked off by now - the fifteenth bathroom supplier has told me that he's wrong and so I pick a name out of the yellow pages and get another plumber to come round. He gets here that day, says "yes I can do it for 400 quid. it will take four hours". Two days later he comes here, it takes four hours and it costs four hundred quid. Even with the old bath taps I can see that it works.

He's given me a quote which is more or less identical to the others for doing the bathroom and I am really not comfortable with having this other man anymore. My preference would be to call him or better still email him and say "I don't want to go ahead with you but I would like to give you £100 for the time you have spent on the phone etc". I don't want to have a long argument about pumps. I would like his dad to continue servicing the boiler he fitted. I wouldn't be comfortable having the son in my house for ten days - he was pretty rude on the phone in the end, like I was being a real pain asking about taps etc. I don;t think he was trying to make me pay more I just think he is either not very bright, or well - it's a mystery to be honest.

Like I said, there was no slot booked. He has bought no materials, but I have verbally accepted. I don't want to lie and say because of the economic situation can't afford to go ahead etc.

I called one of those legal telephone lines yesterday and the bloke said I can't put anything in writing. I have to speak to him, tell him he's incompetent and somehow not say in any way that I don't want to go ahead because that implies there was a contract (which includes offering him any money)

I know I am being a wimp but isn't there another way? Am I really legally obliged when I have only verbally agreed? When i agreed to the boiler his dad made me put it in writing and we booked a slot in his schedule but I have no slot booked and I have not agreed in writing

is that phone-a-solicitor right? do I really have to have a big blow up with this man? This is a small market town - he knows where I live - he has been quite unpleasant on the phone already. Also how do I tell him I don't want to go ahead without saying I don't want to go ahead (implying there was a verbal contract)? I am so crap at stuff like this.

I would so appreciate opinions on how to get out of this hole without having to a: lie or b: tell someone they are rubbish

Canucklehead

Good afternoon: Call Plumber #1 and tell him you don't require his services...you don't need to justify the rationale. If you don't want to talk to him on the phone send him a letter. He should develop better customer service skills if he wants the family business to prosper i.e. not lose his temper with customers he perceives as being difficult. If you can develop a good understanding of what is achievable in terms of your bathroom refurb you will put yourself in a better position i.e. able to specify what you want and appreciate what is possible. For example,take a look at these guides from the Bathroom Manufacturers Association.

You should get at least 3 quotes for any works in your home. You can find a qualified plumber on the Chartered Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering website (CIPHE) .

HTH

Canucklehead

27col

I am not quite sure what your problem is, it's a very complicated post. However, you say that you have only had a verbal quote which you say you have accepted. I do not see that you have any grounds for saying that he is incompetent, just because you do not like the way he does business. If he thinks that he has a verbal contract, how can anyone prove what was agreed. If it did come to court it would be your word against his. The solicitor may be right, if you say you want to cancel in a letter, it might be inferred that there was a contract. If you just say that you have decided that you do not want to proceed, on the phone, who knows what was said.
It might be best to just ignore the whole thing, certainly do not offer any money. One of the expenses of doing business is the cost of quotes, whether they are won or lost. I would be interested in what anyone who has a bit of experience in these matter has to say.

faustina_2

canucklehead, thank you for your reply. I did get four quotes originally and I accepted the family firm on the basis of my previous experience with them and the fact that they have all necessary membership of corgi, etc etc. I now know much more about pressure etc and I know that the pump that was installed by the new plumber has definitely increased the pressure even with the old taps

27 col thank you for replying - I'm sorry it was complicated. It was the solicitor who said the plumber was incompetent. I have no idea why the plumber would not fit a pump since I now know that it's possible and it works fine and it didn't cost "at least £2k". I am just trying to do the right thing and not mess anyone around. Even though he has been rude to me and given me wrong advice I still don't feel comfortable about lying but I am equally uncomfortable about having this man in my house every day for just short of two weeks

andrew-b

I'd forget it. They weren't very forthcoming on the taps/pressures by the sounds of it. There are still loads of taps available that will work on good 'ole gravity-fed systems without requiring any pump - but you do have to look a bit harder and have to rule out quite alot. I'm no plumber but if i'm aware of some by name through my own research then surely any decent plumber should at least be able to suggest a few suitable taps? Maybe this is outside of their usual remit and they tend to stick to central heating systems? Certainly don't volunteer any money to them. I'd probably take the boiler servicing elsewhere too bearing in mind how you feel about them.

Andy

jockster211

Canucklehead wrote: »

He should develop better customer service skills if he wants the family business to prosper i.e. not lose his temper with customers he perceives as being difficult.

Got to agree with Canucklehead.

A tradesman provides various services, and from what you say he doesn't seem to be able to provide the customer service bit. I just don't get tradesmen who think they can just turn up fit something & get paid. Customers are much more discerning & informed, a bit of hassle goes with nearly every job. Seems like this guy has forgotten who is paying him in the end:mad: .

Give him a call, just say 'I've decided not to go ahead' don't explain, don't say when you'll be going ahead, don't commit to anything, say thanks:rolleyes: and hang up. Quick & painless(almost).

Get several quotes, through recommendation if possible. Wait a few weeks then go ahead with someone else:j .

Jockster

asp746

give him a ring - tell him that you're job security's a bit iffy at the moment and you want to just wait a few weeks and leave it at that. apologise profusely.

sometimes workmen overprice jobs cos they don't want to do them. if you don't want to ring just get someone else to do it. you sound as tho you are too loyal - but you have to learn to look after number one.

faustina_2

thank you all for your replies - Jockster, saying I don't want to go ahead is exactly what I wanted to say but according to the solicitor this implies that I entered into a verbal contract.
I have had quotes aplenty and would be happy to use the plumber who fitted my pump but I want to get shot of the first bloke before accepting the other one

asp746 - it isn't loyalty - I accepted him initially because they did my boiler installation well and their quote was good and he also seemed to know about building regs (I am having the soilstack moved outside) - it was after accepting his estimate that he started behaving like an !!!!

I am really grateful to you all for the suggestions.One way or another I will do something tomorrow and let you know what happens

ukjoel

My guess is that he probably didnt want to do the work.
If you get vibes like that walk away. Theres lots of other people out there who do want it.

Clive_Woody

faustina wrote: »

thank you all for your replies - Jockster, saying I don't want to go ahead is exactly what I wanted to say but according to the solicitor this implies that I entered into a verbal contract.
I have had quotes aplenty and would be happy to use the plumber who fitted my pump but I want to get shot of the first bloke before accepting the other one

asp746 - it isn't loyalty - I accepted him initially because they did my boiler installation well and their quote was good and he also seemed to know about building regs (I am having the soilstack moved outside) - it was after accepting his estimate that he started behaving like an !!!!

I am really grateful to you all for the suggestions.One way or another I will do something tomorrow and let you know what happens

Verbal contracts by their nature are very difficult to prove, and I doubt very much the plumber would take it to court to try and enforce it or sue for breach of contract. The other thing to consider is that the contract would not be complete until all aspects of the job were agreed upon. If you want work done that he isn't prepared to do (fitting the pump) then there is no way you would agree a contract with this person.

I would simply send him a polite but brief letter saying than you for providing me with a quote for the job but unfortuantely you will not be taking him up on that quote.

sujman

A couple years ago, my work receptionist recommended her brother in law for some fencing work I needed.

He came round, had a look and gave a decent quote. I agreed to the job and set a date. A few days before the job was to start, he delayed as he wanted to watch the footy (this was during the 2006 cup final). Fair enough reason I thought.

However, he then delayed a few more times and then dropped into the conversation that I had to pay for the materials on arrival, as he had no credit facilities.

Needless to say by this point I had had enough and texted him that I no longer wanted his services. He tried to call me but I ignored him. He sent me a long text bemoaning the fact that I should have given him a chance etc etc but I wasn't comfortable with him and you should always go with your instincts.

I was later told by other works colleagues never to trust the receptionists brother in law, as her husband and brother were known to partake in doggy practices!!! A bullet nicely dodged on that occcasion!