Tricks tenants get up to

neas

Disagree. Ok so you say this time, you didnt submit a S21 (weird if its standard protocol ah well). You still do submit them. If you really haven't submitted a S21 then you would have a good case legally.

Does it mean I side with you? No, cause i hate S21s.. they really have no place in a tenants new starting pack at all.

A S21 means the landlord can kick a tenant out without giving a tenant the two months notice.

Right? Or am i in a alice in wonderland world where a S21 is 'just a piece of paper' for 'technical reasons'.. given at the start of the tenancy.. 'just for normal practice'.

I am with the tenant because... i'd think along the same lines I have a piece of paper saying 'Landlord seeks posession on X' X being the date of end of fixed tenancy... would I be mistaken that that is not the intention of a S21?

I was conned into the S21 malarchy and was not told its true purpose.. 'i.e the loss of 2 months notice'. I read quite a bit into S21 aka SoD when I found one in my tenancy agreement pack. Stories of landlords kicking people out at the end of fixed with little to no notice or tenants having the right to 'up and leave' and the end of tenancy..

I haven't taken the time but i thourghoughly disagree with the practice of giving a S21 'just out of normal practice'... it was meant to be given to seek possession, not as a 'fall back'... and in some cases strips the tenants of their notice period.

Is it right for someone to give 5 days notice when they morally should give 30? No.

Is it right for someone to take give 0 days notice to take possession via the S21 Sword of damocles? No it is not either.

Would you or woudl you ever take possession with 0 days notice? Probably not... but it doesn't eliminate the malicious potenital of a SoD S21.

Thats why i feel this way. I've been shafted by my letting agent all along my tenancy... late repairs (3 months). My Sword states they want possesion on or after a certain date.. how is this to be interpreted? If they want to take possession... it means they told me 6 months ago of their intention? Or if they don't want possession, it means nothing?

You can't place a S21 and then expect to have your cake and eat it.. do you want them out or not? Yes... serve S21 at start and take back at end. No? then don't issue a legal document that states you want the property back on a certain date.

S21's annoy the hell out of me, its not 'playing fair' if you ask me.

neas

As always I'd have come to a happy medium with this so-called charity case... If i bent over backwards for her in the first place I'd have prob said... well done for getting cheaper accomodation.... lets split it 50/50 give 2 weeks notice and lets call it quits..

Sounds like we getting one side too atm... its hard to believe they'd side with tenant on information we have atm.

clutton_2

Neas - Section 21 is not an issue in this arbitration and i will not discuss it any further here .

""Is it right for someone to give 5 days notice when they morally should give 30""

it is not a matter of morals - it is a matter of law Callender Case 2000 - which ruled that tenants must give a months notice ending on rent day if they stay one day into a periodic tenancy. its nothing to do with morals - its to do with the law.

Contract Law is what covers L&T legislation - a contract has to be a legally binding agreement (if it is a legally written contract) in all its clauses and for both parties -

you cannot say "morally i the tenant dont like this so i am going to ignore it - any more than I can say "as a landlord i morally dont like that so i am going to ignore it"

you say

""If you really haven't submitted a S21 then you would have a good case legally.""

i really haven't submitted a S21. Since you have not read the thread how do you surmise that i would have a good case legally ????


"" its hard to believe they'd side with tenant on information we have atm."" - exactly so - THAT is why i am taking them to court

i am not going to defend my business practice to you or anyone else on this thread.

My case against DPS will be a test case for both landlords and tenants - so that we will all get fair and legal judgement from DPS in the future - and for that reason, neas "landlord bashing " on this thread is entirely inappropriate.

RabbitMad

I thought the LLZ thread was familiar - I'll follow progress here

1984ReturnsForReal_2

(although my cleaners got 5, yes 5, hoover bags of dirt from the lounge carpet alone - i wonder if this was the cause of the babies asthma ??)
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I love this line.

The lounge carpet must have been the size of Wembly Stadium to get that much in 6mths.

Was it a joke? or Does the OP think people are fools?

RabbitMad

I believe the OP on the carpet issue.

I filled up 3 dysons worth of dirt from my lounge when I moved into my house - if the hoover the tenant had was not very powerful this wouldn't suprise me (or if they didn't hoover).

And another example my Brother had his wedding at my father's house 4 months after he had moved out. Father didn't appear to have hoovered in that time and my bro got 4 dysons full of dust of the lounge carpet alone.

N79

Clutton

I am sorry to hear that you have had this perverse result.

Removing the fact that you clearly feel betrayed by this tenant and just looking at the important facts (T stayed beyond fixed period, creating SPT and failed to provide notice) I can not think of a reasonable defence to your claim for rent during the (legally) required notice period.

More importantly, this is the first perverse judgement that I have come accross (although to be fair it is a very small sample) and the lack of detailed reasoning from the DPS for their judgement is the most worrying aspect.

I would be interested in any moves you make to push the matter further but while you undoubtably have a (small claims) case against the T for the outstanding rent (which, of course, is a waste of time) any case against the DPS will be much harder to substantiate. Most importantly of all is that a court review of the decision will almost certainly not be in the small claims track.

I assume you have sent full details to the NLA (I think you have said before that you are a member)? It would be worth understanding their viewpoint before you launch into any further action.

Keep us updated on how you get on and if you want any help or moral support then just ask.

N79

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

(although my cleaners got 5, yes 5, hoover bags of dirt from the lounge carpet alone - i wonder if this was the cause of the babies asthma ??)
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I love this line.

The lounge carpet must have been the size of Wembly Stadium to get that much in 6mths.

Was it a joke? or Does the OP think people are fools?

As stated by someone who has never had to clean a property after Ts have failed to clean it during the full length of a tenancy.

Cloister

Sorry to hear about all your troubles.

I would NEVER leave somewhere I have rented without thoroughly cleaning it first.

The Last three places I have left the flat/house in better condition than when I moved in.

I clean EVERYTHING, spend anywhere between 2 and 5 full days cleaning. and as a consequence I always get back my deposit in full!

Some people are incredible.

clutton_2

n79 - many thanks - clearly i cannot go into details about my defence case in details on a public forum, but i am interested in your saying

"" Most importantly of all is that a court review of the decision will almost certainly not be in the small claims track.

I shall be applying in the small claims court for DPS to repay my deposit as the amount is small - are you saying that Small Claims will refuse to hear it - in case it sets a precedent ? - if they wont hear it - will they refer it to a higher court ? or will i have to take it to the county court myself ?