Tricks tenants get up to

franklee

daska wrote: »

Well, I wish we had Clutton as LL at the last place we lived! Our LL wrote to us to tell us we could stay if we behaved (we'd called in the council to get a category 1 safety deficiency repaired and complained about faulty oven, microwave, hob, freezer and washing machine and a 1" gap around the front and back doors letting in wind and rain!!!!!!) at the same time that the Agent sent us the S21. We agreed a period of leniency on the last month's rent with the Agent while they attempted to sort out the dispute over the repairs. The LL then repossessed (before the end of the 6 month tenancy) without giving the agent warning of their intentions or allowing us a check-out, and while we were not at the property, and claimed all our deposit on the basis that we were behind on the rent and we'd deliberately broken the locks... To get anything back from them we'd have had to take them to court, which tbh we don't have time or energy for. So we settled for half the deposit... Unfortunately for Clutton and ourselves (we are also LLs), it's LLs like this who make it more likely that tenants will take advantage whenever they can.

Hi daska, I've quoted all your post but put in bold the bits that show exactly why I have a problem with the (nicknamed) Sword of Damocles method of serving S21 notices. By that I mean that a landlord serves an S21 at the same time as telling a tenant they can stay if they behave.

The problem is that as an S21 notice can be enforced regardless of a tenant's behaviour the promise a tenant can stay if they behave is misleading. As you found out the landlord is free to enforce the S21 regardless of your behaviour. Meanwhile as the tenant is led to think the S21 wasn't to be enforced they do not use the notice period to arrange moving and so can at any time afterwards be asked to just leave or face court for possession without further notice. It seems that's what happened to you.

Also of interest in your case is that the S21 cannot be used to gain possession before the end of the fixed term, so it sounds like the S21 used to get you out was invalid. Yet if I say in here that a tenant can leave on an invalid S21 then I'm not believed! It seems that some landlords here think as the tenant didn't give notice, and in your case left before the end of the fixed term, the tenant in your position can be charged rent in lieu of notice even though the S21 was asking you to leave just because the S21 was invalid.

In my view these problems come about by landlords serving S21 notices early on (sometimes even as part of the tenancy agreement) to hedge their bets to dispense with having to give the tenant proper notice in future once the landlord really does want the tenant to leave.

aquickstep

renting is a mugs game for a non residential landlord. especially with an alledgedley ..professional letting agency

mickey88_2

[FONT=돋움]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip0upUjHf1Q[/FONT]
check it out!

clutton_2

spam and utter rubbish

homeoffice

Hi guys,

This may be slightly off topic but mine is the following dilemma:

1) I Issued a section 21 for a 6 AST on the 7th January 2009 by hand, giving tenants 2 months to vacate property by 31st March 2009, tenants tenancy agreement ends 1st April 2009.....

2) Tenants has taken section 21 to council saying that she is has been given notice too leave property (tenant is women with 2 kids)....obviously wanting to apply for council house....

3) Council writes back to me saying section 21 issued incorrectly and that if I have taken a deposit its need to be in a tenancy deposit scheme for the section 21 to be valid ( I have taken a deposit but it is in no scheme)....

Would it be better if I returned the deposit and issued the section 21 again? This would save me the hassle of putting the money into one of these schemes!

If I were to issue a section 21 again how would I do this correctly given the details above; as I have less then 1 and half a months before the current 6 AST ends?

Help would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance

MissMotivation

homeoffice wrote: »

Hi guys,

This may be slightly off topic but mine is the following dilemma:

1) I Issued a section 21 for a 6 AST on the 7th January 2009 by hand, giving tenants 2 months to vacate property by 31st March 2009, tenants tenancy agreement ends 1st April 2009.....

2) Tenants has taken section 21 to council saying that she is has been given notice too leave property (tenant is women with 2 kids)....obviously wanting to apply for council house....

3) Council writes back to me saying section 21 issued incorrectly and that if I have taken a deposit its need to be in a tenancy deposit scheme for the section 21 to be valid ( I have taken a deposit but it is in no scheme)....

Would it be better if I returned the deposit and issued the section 21 again? This would save me the hassle of putting the money into one of these schemes!

If I were to issue a section 21 again how would I do this correctly given the details above; as I have less then 1 and half a months before the current 6 AST ends?

Help would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance

A prime example of a bad Landlord!!

Firstly, the deposit has to be protected in one of the Tenancy Deposit Schemes, if it is not protected then your Tenants are within their rights to take you to Court and potentially they could claim 3 x deposit from you.....so get it protected ASAP

Secondly the Section 21 can't be issued to end before the end of the fixed period so if the agreement doesn't end until 1st April then the council are correct and you have issued it incorrectly!

Thirdly you can only issue the Section 21 from the date the rent is due and has to be for a full 2 months, for example, if the tenants moved in on the 31st of a certain month and rent is due on 31st of every month then the 2 months notice has to be served on the 31st of a month......not 1st, 3rd, 10th or whatever.....and had to end after the end of the fixed term.

homeoffice

Thanks for the quick response....MissMotivation

Trust me I am not a bad landlord....

It was my ignorance for not putting the deposit into the scheme, I have every intention of returning the deposit.

My point is can I issue the section 21 if I return the deposit to the tenant?

I renewed my tenants tenancy on an 6 months AST on the 1st Oct 2008 expiring on the 1st April 2009; so my section 21 should be issued from 1st March and end 1st May (2 month notice) at which point it will be a periodic tenacy....will the fact that the tenacy will go into a periodic tenancy have any effect on the wording of the section 21?

thanks again

paintpot

If I were you I'd protect the deposit now, send the prescribed info and then reissue the S21. If you use the DPS scheme it is really easy and you can pay online and you can download the prescribed info from the site.

http://www.depositprotection.com/Default.aspx?bhjs=1&fla=1

In terms of your notice, if you issue it before the end of the fixed term then you use the S21B notice not the S21A.

I would strongly suggest that you check the AST for the dates as you state the last day of the tenancy is the 1st April. If it truly was a 6 month AST then the last day of the 6 month fixed term would be 31st March not 1st April but it's common mistake to make and isn't a problem as such but you need to get your dates right.

With a S21B you just need to give a minimum of two clear months notice. The dates are more tricky if you serve notice when the tenancy has become periodic as you have to give two months notice but you are required to ask for possession after the last day of a rental period.

The following provides a detailed explanation.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/pdf/servingS21.pdf

homeoffice wrote: »

Thanks for the quick response....MissMotivation

Trust me I am not a bad landlord....

It was my ignorance for not putting the deposit into the scheme, I have every intention of returning the deposit.

My point is can I issue the section 21 if I return the deposit to the tenant?

I renewed my tenants tenancy on an 6 months AST on the 1st Oct 2008 expiring on the 1st April 2009; so my section 21 should be issued from 1st March and end 1st May (2 month notice) at which point it will be a periodic tenacy....will the fact that the tenacy will go into a periodic tenancy have any effect on the wording of the section 21?

thanks again

homeoffice

Thanks paintpot,

I think ill go for the TDS and then issue the section 21, with regards to the tenancy agreement, that was probably my mistake. I stated on the 6 month AST that was given to the tenant that it started on Oct 1st 2008 and ended on the 1st April 2009 (I should have stated that it ended on the 31st March 2009). This is where my confusion is?

I am hoping to get the deposit put into the scheme on Monday, can you give me any ideas for what dates need to go on the section 21..


Thanks again for all your help.....

paintpot

After you have protected the deposit you also need to send the prescribed info. If you post it then get a certificate of service or else hand deliver it and again have a witness, then you have complied with the deposit scheme.

I would wait until you have confirmation from the scheme that your deposit has gone through so you have proof that the S21 was served after the protection.

If for example you served the S21B (very important it's the right notice and you are still within the fixed term) next Friday, 20th Feb, then you would require possession after (very important word) 20th April as that is two months. However if you post it then you need to add on 3 days to that date, if you hand deliver it then I believe it's deemed served the following day but I'd still add a couple of days on for safety sake. If possible you ask the tenant to sign receipt of receiving it, (not always possible) so if you hand deliver it make sure you take a witness and ideally get them to take photos of you posting it.

Have a read of the link I gave you as it gives you all the different options for service and ways of saefguarding yourself against the tenant saying they didn't receive it.