Tricks tenants get up to

silvercar

Bad luck!

As for going to mydeposits, are they any better? They were the ones that forgot to take credit card payments for a few weeks Summer 2007 and the ones that had to change their terms and conditions twice to satisfy legal requirements.

clutton_2

at least with mydeposits i keep the money and the tenant has to sue me to get it back if there are unresolved disputes

silvercar

clutton wrote: »

at least with mydeposits i keep the money and the tenant has to sue me to get it back if there are unresolved disputes

Are you sure?

I thought the landlord had to pass any disputed amount to mydeposits. The landlord can then choose whether to accept mydeposits arbitration or require the tenant to go to court and then (presuming you win) mydeposits returns the disputed amount to the landlord.

tbs624

Silvercar is right - in the event of a dispute you have to lodge the funds with the scheme's administrators and it is held in a client account until settlement of the dispute via ADR or court. They also hold onto any interest accrued in the interim period.

If a LL fails to deposit the disputed funds within 10 days of being notified of a dispute , mydeposits state that they will take discplinary action against the LL, seek to recover the disputed amount from the LL and that ADR may be refused.

tbs624

Thanks for posting the update Clutton. It does make you wonder how the adjudicators arrive at their decisions.

clutton wrote: »

Well, i am utterly utterly utterly utterly gobsmacked - the tenant won the complete deposit .......

"......For clarification i am inclined to accept the tenants submission that the LL was aware that the Tenant would be vacating the property at the end of the fixed term and accordingly i find th.at the landlords claim in this regard fails. "

but she moved out AFTER the end of the fixed term - when the AST became periodic when a full months notice is required to be given ending on the final day of the rent period

The dates given for your T moving out are at odds with what you said in your OP

clutton wrote: »

...a week after the 6 months she phoned and said she was leaving in 3 days time .....

but either way, as you say, the T was outside the original FT & hence within month one of a periodic agreement, so should have had to give notice. Very strange.

franklee

clutton wrote: »

Well, i am utterly utterly utterly utterly gobsmacked - the tenant won the complete deposit

the DPS judgment papers clearly say that the tenancy ended on 16th November and then clearly agree that she moved out on 21st November

and goes on to say

"the tenant submits that the landlord was aware that she would be vacating the proprty upon the expiration of the tenancy agreement"


The final judgement goes on to say I find that in accordance with clause 3.62 of the Office of Fair Trading Guidance in Unfair Contract Terms in Tenancy AGreements 2005 that a fixed term Assured Shorthold Tenancy AGreement comes to an end when the fixed term runs out; and the Tenant does not have to provide notice to end it. For clarification i am inclined to accept the tenants submission that the LL was aware that the Tenant would be vacating the property at the end of the fixed term and accordingly i find that the landlords claim in this regard fails. "


i am utterly utterly speechless

but she moved out AFTER the end of the fixed term - when the AST became periodic when a full months notice is required to be given ending on the final day of the rent period


i am now going to transfer my deposits from DPS to the mydeposit scheme (insurance backed) and make sure that every notice from a tenant is received in writing - or that i confirm their phone call in writing the day they phone.

Thanks for the update clutton.

I am really puzzled by this strange result.

Can you just confirm that 16th November was the correct end date of the fixed term and that the tenant left on the 21st?

Did you see the tenant's defence and what did that say? I think it must be to do with this from your first post:

clutton wrote: »

they have now come back to the DPS with more lies - that i always knew that she would only stay 6 months and that i had refused to extend her tenancy - altho why these are ground for deposit retention when they moved out after the Fixed Term, i really cannot say.

So on what grounds did she claim you refused to extend? An S21 seems to be the only thing I can think of that would have let her off and be a refusal to extend on your part. Perhaps you did fill in her copy that was in her tenancy agreement, or perhaps she did.

If there was a S21 then I can see they'd be right but without that then the tenant overstayed and would have needed to serve notice.

Who made the decision and what qualifications do they have, can you appeal?

If it were me I'd at least ask them for a full explanation there must be more to it than you posted otherwise it's just a crazy outcome.

franklee

clutton wrote: »

The final judgement goes on to say I find that in accordance with clause 3.62 of the Office of Fair Trading Guidance in Unfair Contract Terms in Tenancy AGreements 2005 that a fixed term Assured Shorthold Tenancy AGreement...

Interesting also that they are citing the Office of Fair Trading Guidance in Unfair Contract Terms in Tenancy AGreements which are only guidelines and no more. Is that going to be a precedent to use them more I wonder. Guidelines say:

3.62 A fixed term tenancy comes to an end when the fixed term runs out and a tenant does not have to give notice to end it. Landlords may include clauses in tenancy agreements setting out their legal powers to end the tenancy ('forfeiture' clauses) but we object to forfeiture clauses that are not in plain language and that do not make the legal position with regard to eviction completely clear to the tenant, ie: that a landlord is obliged to seek a court order to recover possession if the tenant remains in occupation (see Group 18(c) for our views on these terms).

Which doesn't seem to apply as she left five days late. Was the start date challenged in some way such that the six months slipped? Any dispute over the end date of the fixed term?

I'd hope the adjudicators are properly qualified but it's not looking like they are from this case.

clutton_2

""3.62 A fixed term tenancy comes to an end when the fixed term runs out and a tenant does not have to give notice to end it. Landlords may include clauses in tenancy agreements setting out their legal powers to end the tenancy ('forfeiture' clauses) but we object to forfeiture clauses that are not in plain language and that do not make the legal position with regard to eviction completely clear to the tenant, ie: that a landlord is obliged to seek a court order to recover possession if the tenant remains in occupation (see Group 18(c) for our views on these terms""

thank you for this franklee - and thank you for your mature response to this judgement - it is indeed a crazy judgement.

i did not complete the section 21 in her AST - there is no claim that i did - section 21 does not get a mention at all in the judgement

it would seem from your very helpful quote from 3.62 that my "forfeiture clause" was not clear enough for the tenant to understand !!!!!!

the arbitrater is anonymous and there is no right of appeal whatsoever - other than for me to take DPS to court

the DPS arbitrater seem to have accepted the tenants assertion that she "would be vacating the property upon the expiration of the Tenancy Agreement" and yet also accept that she did indeed move out AFTER the end of the fixed period - yet still say i am not entitled to notice !!! perverse or what ??

i am minded to sue both DPS and the tenant in a joint action, as even tho the DPS have given her the money back, as far as i am concerned, i am still owed rent in lieu of notice.

might you be able to provide me with "" (see Group 18(c) for our views on these terms"" please franklee ?

"Can you just confirm that 16th November was the correct end date of the fixed term and that the tenant left on the 21st? "

yes i can, and the DPS accept these dates

part of the judgement reads

"The tenant disputes the landlords claim in full, stating that the landlord was aware that she would vacate the property at the end of november"

if that WAS the case - where is the evidence of her having submitted her written notice to this effect ?

btw - this ""stating that the landlord was aware that she would vacate the property at the end of november"" statement is not on her Stat Dec so its obvious DPS are using evidence i know nothing about (presumably emails from the tenant) - whilst ignoring emails i sent saying that a few days before the end of the fixed term she had texted to ask if she could install SKY ...... not a request i might normally expect to receive from someone who was moving out in a few days !!

clutton_2

tbs624 says ""mydeposits state that they will take discplinary action against the LL, seek to recover the disputed amount from the LL and that ADR may be refuseds ""

presumably if the LL then refused to hand over the money to mydeposits the tenant's only course of action would have to take the LL to court ?

- any idea what this "disciplinary action " might be ?

silvercar

Evict you from mydeposits is the disciplinary action, forcing you to protect all your deposits elsewhere.

They will also take the side of the tenant in the dispute to try and get the money from you so that they can adjudicate. I thought that you could hand the money to mydeposits but not accept ADR and the tenant would have to prove case in court or the deposit amount would be returned to you.