Blair, Oliver and Scott

poppy52

One of my creditors is Bank of Scotland - debt of nearly £2000 from their Preference Account. My DMP is now nearly 4 months old and pro rata payments have been made to them. I have had 2 letters from Blair, Oliver and Scott saying debt is now theirs and pay up in full or else. A woman from them just phoned and was very shirty. I said I have replied to their letters and also forwarded to Payplan and they should contact them. She said she doesn't have to and I need to make another arrangement. I said I would prefer letters, not phone calls, and she said no. She now wants another I/E form from Payplan even though nothing has changed since the DMP was set up. Should I be worried? I really thought all the phone calls had stopped - she even mentioned door to door collectors!

hueygeorge

Hi
I've had hassle with debt agencies before and at the time I looked into the rules and regs - try National Debt Helpline web-site - as far as I can remember you can request contact via post only - thats how I communicate with mine now. They also shouldn't hassle you nor be shirty with you. I reported one woman I spoke to from a debt agency - sorry can't remember who they were - and I actually received a letter of apology after an 'investigation'! I suppose it goes for any profession, some people love the 'power' they wield and some are nice, decent people. Don't feel threatened by her but I would defintely report her. The last thing you need when facing debt is nasty calls so get her stopped before she does it someone else.
Anyway Good Luck!
Karren

flaura

hi she's just trying to force you to pay more , tell them each time they call that you are with Payplan give them your payplan reference and say the only agreements you will make will be through payplan..

be tough on them.they tend to come back at you every six months or so.. looks like you were unlucky with this person.. I've had a guy from BOS flirting to try and get the money...(i effectively owe BOS £9500 now.)

they can't make you pay what you haven't got. and if there rude tell them you are disconnecting the call if she continues to be rude. tell your Payplan officer if you really feel they are harrasing you.

sound like you were unlucky. BOS are usually good to me. if she calls again you can always take her name and write and complain in fact write anyway and tell them you do not wish to receive communication by telephone.

hueygeorge

Hi again!

I'm feeling helpful today and also putting off the amount of house-work I have to do!!
Anyway just been on the National Debt Helpline web-site and copied this for you - sorry its so long but haven't time to edit - really need to get on with cleaning!
Good Luck
Karren

SECTION 40 OF THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT
“S40 Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors.

A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract he-
harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency, or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;
falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;
falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or
utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character, or purporting to have some official character which he know it has not.
A person may be guilty of an offence by virtue of sub-section (1) (a) above if he concerts with others in the taking of such actions as is described in that paragraph, notwithstanding that his own course of conduct does not by itself amount to harassment.”

Phone us for advice 0808 808 4000




OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING CODE OF GUIDANCE
Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note that “anything done by a person which is reasonable” when trying to recover a debt, is not considered to be harassment. Both the Office of Fair Trading and Trade Associations (run by the credit industry) have produced guidance on what activities may be considered harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors. The following list is taken from the new Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit licences.

Creditors are warned by the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt Collection Guidance that the following practices are "considered unfair":

“IT IS UNFAIR TO COMMUNICATE, IN WHATEVER FORM, WITH CONSUMERS IN AN UNCLEAR, INACCURATE OR MISLEADING MANNER.”

This includes:

Letters that look like court claims
Not making it clear who the company is or what their role is
Unhelpful legal language
Not giving balance statements about the debt when asked
Contacting you at unreasonable times even when asked not to
Asking you to contact them on premium rate phone numbers.
“ THOSE CONTACTING DEBTORS MUST NOT BE DECEITFUL BY MISREPRESENTING THEIR AUTHORITY AND/OR THE CORRECT LEGAL POSITION.”

This includes:

Claiming to work for the court or be a bailiff
Implying action can be taken that is not legally possible such as implying they could take your property
Using a business name or logo that implies they are a government body
Implying that court action has been taken against you when it hasn’t
Implying not paying your debt is a criminal offence
Threatening to take court action in England if you live in Scotland or the other way round.
“ PUTTING PRESSURE ON DEBTORS OR THIRD PARTIES IS CONSIDERED TO BE OPPRESSIVE.”

This includes:

Contacting you too frequently
Pressurising you to sell property or take out more debt
Using more than one collection company at the same time or not telling you when your debt has been passed to another company
Pressurising you to pay in full or in large instalments you cannot afford
Making threatening gestures or statements
Ignoring disputes about whether you owe the money
Trying to embarrass you in public or threatening to tell a third party about your debts such as a neighbour or your family.
“ DEALINGS WITH DEBTORS ARE NOT TO BE DECEITFUL AND/OR UNFAIR.”

Examples include:

Sending letters addressed to “the occupier” or discussing the debt with someone without knowing if they are you
Refusing to deal with an adviser acting on your behalf
Not accepting reasonable offers or passing on payments you make
Refusing to freeze action if you dispute the debt.
“ CHARGES SHOULD NOT BE LEVIED UNFAIRLY”.

Examples include:

Claiming collection costs when the original credit agreement didn’t allow this to happen and making you think you are legally liable for the costs
Not putting the specific amounts that can be added for collection costs in the original credit agreement
Adding unreasonable charges.
“ THOSE VISITING DEBTORS MUST NOT ACT IN AN UNCLEAR OR THREATENING MANNER.”

Collectors should explain the reason for any visit and give you notice of the time and date they will call
They shouldn’t visit if they know you are ill or vulnerable and if they find you are unwell or distressed they should leave
They should not come in if you do not want them to and should leave when you ask them to
They shouldn’t visit you at work or somewhere like a hospital.
Phone us for advice 0808 808 4000




HOW TO DEAL WITH HARASSMENT BY YOUR CREDITORS
The first step is to write to a creditor and outline your concerns about the company’s behaviour. Inform them that you are familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act and ask that the creditor takes steps to avoid similar occurrences in the future. Tell your creditors how you would prefer to be contacted and ask that they confirm their agreement to this. A letter at this stage may avoid the need to take further action against the company.
Tell them you are aware of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance and that you will consider making a complaint about their behaviour under the guidance.
It is usually difficult to persuade the police to prosecute in cases of harassment unless a more serious offence such as violence, fraud or blackmail is also involved. Normally complaints should be made to the trading standards/consumer protection department at your local council. They should investigate whether an offence has been committed and whether prosecution is appropriate. The penalty is a fine of up to £5,000 in the Magistrates Court. Also a conviction is likely to provide evidence that the creditor is no longer a ‘fit and proper person’ to hold a consumer credit licence.
If Trading Standards will not act it may be worth contacting the Office of Fair Trading directly. The address is at the end of the factsheet. The OFT does not usually take up individual complaints but their Debt Collection Enforcement Team collects information that can be used to take action against creditors who can lose their consumer credit licence.
The creditor may be a member of a trade association with a code of practice. You could find out if your creditor is a member of a trade association and write to them with your complaint. A code of practice is not legally enforceable but the association may take some action against their members. Details of the main trade associations are at the end of the factsheet under “Useful Addresses”.
OTHER OPTIONS

Another alternative is for you to pursue your own prosecution in the Magistrates Court. This could involve considerable cost so you need to obtain proper legal advice first.
BT have a new service called "Choose to Refuse" which might help if you are getting a lot of calls from an unpleasant creditor. You have to key in a pin number after a call. The caller will then get an automated message if you don’t wish to take their call when they ring. The cost of the service is £8.00 per quarter.
If you receive a telephone service from another provider, contact them and ask if they have a similar service.
You could refer to the Malicious Communications Act 1988. This deals with the sending of letters or articles for the purpose of causing “distress or anxiety”. A person found guilty can be fined in the Magistrates Court. To prosecute successfully, the letter or article sent would have to convey:-
A message which is indecent or grossly offensive
A threat; or
Information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender.
The Criminal Justice Act & Public Order Act 1994 Section 4a makes it a criminal offence to cause “Harassment, alarm or distress” with intent by using “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour”. This can only be an offence if it happens in a public place not in your own home. The police would need to be contacted and prosecute for this offence.
The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 makes it a criminal offence to harass people and put “people in fear of violence”. The harassment must happen on at least 2 separate occasions. The police would have to agree to prosecute for this offence.
Phone us for advice 0808 808 4000

flaura

when you write quote some of that stuff in your letter ,, also quoting your payplan reference they'll soon pull her up on it if they think you know what you are on about..

keith_lard

Thanks hueygeorge!

Really useful post you have done!

Have printed it out and its near my phone when 'they' call.

Cheers!

K.

Harassed_2

I have had 2 letters from Blair, Oliver and Scott saying debt is now theirs and pay up in full or else.

Firstly, Blair Oliver & Scott are part of the Bank of Scotland / Halifax group; their in-house debt collection branch. So they are TELLING LIES.

If you speak to them again, make it quite clear that you know this. State also any further harassment from them and you'll be taking it up with the Banking Ombudsman.

AGB863

Harassed wrote:

Firstly, Blair Oliver & Scott are part of the Bank of Scotland / Halifax group; their in-house debt collection branch. So they are TELLING LIES.

If you speak to them again, make it quite clear that you know this. State also any further harassment from them and you'll be taking it up with the Banking Ombudsman.

They may be part of the group, but they are a company in their own rights and as such they are the owner of the debt.

This is common practice with the primary lenders, that they use their "in house" debt collectors before they sell the debt to other agencies.

Harassed_2

They may be part of the group, but they are a company in their own rights and as such they are the owner of the debt.

Suggest you brush up on your company law. No, they are not the owner of the debt, the group is the owner of the debt. The parent company (in this case Bank of Scotland / Halifax) is the owner. All the 'shuffling' about between subsidiary companies doesn't change that fact.

Further to that, no debt can be sold or the ownership transferred without a notice of assignment. So the internal 'shuffle' means zip.

If you intend offering advice, get it right.

mrelephant_2

Poppy

One trick i used when i was getting petering phone calls was to ring BT and ask then to change my phone number, i told them i was getting harrassing calls, (didnt mention they were from creditors, didnt want to alarm them i was having financial difficulties), thye changed the number free of charge.

So the only number my creditors now have is my old one, i have since written to all my creditors stating that i am no longer contactable by phone and that all communication must be by letter, this worked a treat.

I am no longer in fear every time the phone rings, only close friends and relatives have my new number.

Derek

davek1

Excellent idea MrElephant!

and whilst changing the number why not shop around for a cheaper provider even you might just save yourself a few bob into the bargain.

Dave