Unenforceable Credit Agreements

PROLIANT

Is the average UK consumer that mentally !!!!!! to the point where they don't know what a credit card is?
You know fine well the money you are spending is not yours and you have to pay it back so why try to get out of it by putting the "I am thick act" on?
I would take great pleasure in watching you type of people having their car or home taken from them over a silly technicality in a contract, you might think twice before screwing somebody else!

gomer

We all have financial difficulty, in fact that's why most of us end up joining here, but i have to say i am with Mr P on this. When i applied for my credit cards i knew exactly what i was agreeing to & did so knowing what my future responsibility to the credit card company would be, i didn't enter into an agreement so that a few years down the line i could expliot the company by looking for a loophole to get out of my part of the agreement - afterall they kept to thier side of the agreement by giving me credit in the first place.

I accept that in some situations there are legitimate cases where a Credit agreement is not enforcable & may be able to be challenged, but i get a bit cheesed off at the way people increasingly seem to think a credit card agreement is somehow no longer enforcable after they have taken the money & spent all the credit on luxuries they wouldn't otherwise have been able to buy.

These days people have a pretty slack attitude toward credit & seem to see it as thier right to have it rather than as a privilage.

The_Bhoy_3

withnell wrote: »

This site is about money saving, not about ripping off a credit card company that haven't actually done anything wrong to you! - So I'd guess there won't be a letter for that

I don't agree with what the OP is suggesting, however I would also say that the CC have done something wrong (with regard to their own risk & control procedures) by declining the OP for credit & then giving them the card anyway.

gomer

Then the OP should have taken that up with them at the time, but oh no, as usual the allure of loads of credit was more important. They could have questioned why they had been accepted after being declined, but they decided to just spend the credit anyway.

TighterThanTwoCoatsOfPain

TFD wrote: »

He said he applied on the phone.

I applied for my most recent card over the phone and was sent an immediate e-mail with a link on to the T&Cs. There was a little check box to tick and some verification questions or something to confirm i was happy and wanted the card.

Bosh, days later the card and pin were here without so much as a paper CCA in sight... Was by far the best service i have had from a credit card company! :money:

bert&ernie

Vix143 wrote: »

Hello everyone,

I have looked over the website a few times and cant find a letter to send to the C/C company regarding this one. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Back in 2006 I called a credit card company to apply for a credit card. I was declined the card due to my credit rating - which didnt really come as a shock since I was a bit reckless in my youth!
A couple of weeks later I got a letter through the door with a pin number on it and a few days after that I got a credit card!! Since then I have used the card and paid it and used it and paid it etc etc but now Im finding it hard to make the repayments.

Since I never signed an agreement and was actually DECLINED this card - can I claim ignorance and get them to wipe the balance?
Is there any chance I can be really cheeky and ask for all the payments Ive made to the card to be refunded plus the interest?

Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks in advance

Vix

As you have probably gathered by now, the members of this forum are typically very conservative in their views relating to exploiting legal technicalities to avoid repaying credit card debts.

This issue has been discussed numerous times and the threads are always dominated by respondents that simply opine on the morality of the issue. You are highly unlikely to receive much in the way of constructive advice - certainly no more than could be found with a quick search of the forums.

My advice to you is to make up your own mind on the moral issue and, if you want to proceed, take a look at the consumer forums over at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

Be warned that this is not a simple and painless process. You will inevitably be subjected to the lender's collections treatment that will consist of escalating levels of harassment - constant phone calls, threatening letters and possibly visits form collections agents. Even if they know that cant legally enforce the debt, that wont stop them trying it on. They will probably register a default at the credit bureaux and you will need to be highly proactive in getting this removed.

Finally, don't be fooled into parting with any money for up-front fees charged by the numerous claims management firms that have sprung up offering to do this on your behalf.

Merlinexcalibur

Is there any chance I can be really cheeky and ask for all the payments Ive made to the card to be refunded plus the interest?

Okay, I'm going to add some things now. Regarding the 'enforceability' angle. It depends how you applied. Did you apply online for this card? Also, an agreement can be null and void if it doesn't contain the properly set out terms and conditions.

The person above me has mentioned CAG. Which is a very good place for what you need to find out. As to morality. Okay. People can get into debt, lose their jobs tomorrow - it's happening right now in fact daily - however. It's only common sense to realise this happens. What, then, happens when you are at the mercy of creditors and, more importantly, the many vile numbers of debt collecting agencies out there? That just trample all over your rights, harass you into the grave - see the report on an man in his 70s driven to a cash machine by a court appointed balif, who then died as a result of this treatment - and the number of suicides that occur because of the severity. It's not really until you have experieced this ugliness that exists in the debt collecting industry full in the face you can appreciate it. I would say that anything like 'morality' stops at the doors to these places. They will hound people who are dying from cancer, very vulnerable people who cannot fight back, are too terrified to take on these people at their own game to assert their rights.

Because debtors do have rights. Which any creditor doesn't want you to know. Certainly not a DCA. DCA's are just thugs with a fancy name in the end. Most don't hold licences, some are run by some very dodgy individuals. And most are just cowboys who wouldn't even know what an agreement was if it bit them in their neck. What they don't like is people knowing their rights. And you start to assert them and tell them 'hey, don't think you can push me around like this' they do tend to back off.

Unfortunately, the attitude is if you miss payments and cannot pay it's because you are AVOIDING debt. Not so. If you cannot pay what do you do? Live on the streets? Not eat or buy food? Starve to death. Come on this is the 21st century not the days of the debtors prison. I have read so many horrific things about DCAs threatening people with prison if they don't pay - that is illegal for one thing - and threatening one parent families with their kids getting taken into care if they don't pay up. So, where, exactly, is morality then? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. A man was recently hounded in hospital, dying with cancer by one bank. They were taken to court, instructed by a judge to cease harassing the man. They ignored the court, carried on. So, where is 'morality' in that situation?

Merlinexcalibur

Oh, and BTW, but it's against OFT guidelines for any creditor or DCA to pass the fees of collecting to the debtor. If you go and read CAG you will see why. It's legislation as far as I know.

rodent

Merlinexcalibur wrote: »

Oh, and BTW, but it's against OFT guidelines for any creditor or DCA to pass the fees of collecting to the debtor. If you go and read CAG you will see why. It's legislation as far as I know.

Rubbish, if a "letter before action" sets out that this will be the case and gives a time frame to pay up then it is very legal.

Please be aware that "OFT guidelines" are just that:... GUIDELINES... NOT LAW

I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this if you can state:
reference, source and statute.

The Rodent

System

bert&ernie wrote: »

As you have probably gathered by now, the members of this forum are typically very conservative in their views relating to exploiting legal technicalities to avoid repaying credit card debts.

This issue has been discussed numerous times and the threads are always dominated by respondents that simply opine on the morality of the issue. You are highly unlikely to receive much in the way of constructive advice - certainly no more than could be found with a quick search of the forums.

My advice to you is to make up your own mind on the moral issue and, if you want to proceed, take a look at the consumer forums over at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

Be warned that this is not a simple and painless process. You will inevitably be subjected to the lender's collections treatment that will consist of escalating levels of harassment - constant phone calls, threatening letters and possibly visits form collections agents. Even if they know that cant legally enforce the debt, that wont stop them trying it on. They will probably register a default at the credit bureaux and you will need to be highly proactive in getting this removed.

Finally, don't be fooled into parting with any money for up-front fees charged by the numerous claims management firms that have sprung up offering to do this on your behalf.

Probably the most constructive response I have seen so far on this issue.

Although I must say my views on whole CCA 'enforceability' thing are also of the conservative type!

UNDERGROUND