RMA Debt Collection Agency

pipk62

Some scary reading here!
On the subject of recording phone calls, I noticed PixiePie was concerned that she hadn't recorded her phone calls.

RIPA does not prevent individuals recording telephone conversations for their own personal use. However, disclosing the recording to a third party (that is, someone who was not one of the participants in the call) without consent of the call participants is illegal. This means that you do not need to tell the other person that you are recording the call provided that you never intend to let anyone else hear it. If you want to disclose the recording, you will need the permission of the other participants.

source: http://impact.freethcartwright.com/2007/01/can_i_record_te.html

So, in other words, it wouldn't matter, except for your own reference purposes, as I shouldn't think anyone at this company would give permission for you to use the conversation as a form of evidence.

I also believe (although not absolutely sure) that if you intend to disclose the recording you must ask at the start of the conversation, (perhaps someone knows this?)
I would suggest to anyone that they should keep an A4 diary next to the phone, that way its easy to cross reference, and as RAS said "record the (...) time of their calls and ask the name of the person who calls you."

I also agree with RAS "You are not pants, you are a decent person being bullied by a load of whats its"

RAS

Pip

Thanks for that.

Actually, I think telling the DCa that you are recording the call and then "turning on" something so that they can hear might just improve their behaviour.

Then you can use the non-existant recording, just they are likely to put the phone down on you!

PixiePie

oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Having sent the recorded delivery letter as well as two letters stating my I&E and clearly showing I have nothing to pay (almost invited them to make me BR, as that would actually help me out a lot) the absolutely awful and terribly original man called today!!!! I can't believe it!!! After I wrote to them teling them not to! I did quickly state that I had written and he agreed with that but said 'Yes, but there is a more pressing matter now, isn't there Ms PixiePie?' At this point I thought, whatsthe point and just left the phone off the hook and got one with some work.

So I need to report them. But I dont know who to :
Local Council Trading Standards ?
Is there a financial obmusman?
Office Fair Trading? Is this a local council thing too?
Is the Financial Obmusman the regulator for these things? A bit like OffCom?
Does anyone have their name?
And finally, the police, to report harassment?

Sorry, as I know this has been covered before, but I want to make absolutely sure of it.

RAS

Rayday posted this recently.

Reading a report by some Trading Standard areas, RMA are one that is known to them. It seems that the best people to report to may be the TS in the area where the DCa are based, because it is that TS that monitors their behaviour and can ultimately remove their license.

I posted this a few days ago in DMP support thread taken from the National Debt Helpline who are available for more information!

OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING CODE OF GUIDANCE

Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note that 'anything done by a person which is reasonable' when trying to recover a debt, is not considered to be harassment. Both the Office of Fair Trading and trade associations (run by the credit industry) have produced guidance on what activities may be considered harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors. The following list is taken from the new Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit licences.
Creditors are warned by the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt Collection Guidance that the following practices are considered unfair.
"It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear, inaccurate or misleading manner."

This includes:

• letters that look like court claims;
• not making it clear who the company is or what their role is;
• unhelpful legal language;
• not giving balance statements about the debt when asked;
• contacting you at unreasonable times even when asked not to;
• asking you to contact them on premium rate phone numbers.

"Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position."

This includes:

• claiming to work for the court or be a bailiff;
• implying action can be taken that is not legally possible such as implying they could take your property;
• using a business name or logo that implies they are a government body;
• implying that court action has been taken against you when it hasn't;
• implying not paying your debt is a criminal offence;
• threatening to take court action in England if you live in Scotland or the other way round.

"Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive."

This includes:

• contacting you too frequently;
• pressurising you to sell property or take out more debt;
• using more than one collection company at the same time or not telling you when your debt has been passed to another company;
• pressuring you to pay in full or in large instalments you cannot afford;
• making threatening gestures or statements;
• ignoring disputes about whether you owe the money;
• trying to embarrass you in public or threatening to tell a third party such as a neighbour or your family about your debts.

"Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair."

Examples include:

• sending letters addressed to 'the occupier' or discussing the debt with someone without knowing if they are you;
• refusing to deal with an adviser acting on your behalf;
• not accepting reasonable offers or passing on payments you make;
• refusing to freeze action if you dispute the debt.

"Charges should not be levied unfairly."

Examples include:

• claiming collection costs when the original credit agreement didn't allow this to happen and making you think you are legally liable for the costs;
• not putting the specific amounts that can be added for collection costs in the original credit agreement;
• adding any unreasonable charges.

"Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner."

Examples include:

• collectors should explain the reason for any visit and give you notice of the time and date they will call;
• they should not visit if they know you are ill or vulnerable and if they find you are unwell or distressed they should leave;
• they should not come in if you do not want them to and should leave when you ask them to;
• they should not visit you at work or somewhere like a hospital.

Phone us for advice 0808 808 4000


HOW TO DEAL WITH HARASSMENT BY YOUR CREDITORS

The first step is to write to a creditor and outline your concerns about the company's behaviour. Inform them that you are familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act and ask that the creditor takes steps to avoid similar occurrences in the future. Tell your creditors how you would prefer to be contacted and ask that they confirm their agreement to this. A letter at this stage may avoid the need to take further action against the company.

• Tell them you are aware of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance and that you will consider making a complaint about their behaviour under the guidance.
• It is worthwhile keeping a diary of telephone calls, letters, visits etc. It is helpful if another person can confirm what happened, for example, when the creditor called at your home.
• It is usually difficult to persuade the police to prosecute in cases of harassment unless a more serious offence such as violence, fraud or blackmail is also involved.

INFORMATION
Normally complaints should be made to the trading standards or consumer protection department at your local council. They should investigate whether an offence has been committed and whether prosecution is appropriate. The penalty is a fine of up to £5,000 in the magistrates court. Also a conviction is likely to provide evidence that the creditor is no longer a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence.

• If trading standards will not act it may be worth contacting the Office of Fair Trading directly. The OFT does not usually take up individual complaints but their debt collection enforcement team collects information that can be used to take action against creditors who can lose their consumer credit licence.

INFORMATION
See the section 'Useful addresses' at the end of this fact sheet for details of how to contact the OFT.
The creditor may be a member of a trade association with a code of practice. You could find out if your creditor is a member of a trade association and write to them with your complaint. A code of practice is not legally enforceable but the association may take some action against their members.
INFORMATION
See the section 'Useful addresses' at the end of this fact sheet for details of the main trade associations.
OTHER OPTIONS

• Another alternative is for you to pursue your own prosecution in the magistrates court. This could involve considerable cost so you need to obtain proper legal advice first.

INFORMATION
If you are a BT customer, they have a service called 'choose to refuse' which might help you if you are getting a lot of calls from an unpleasant creditor. You have to key in a PIN number after a call. The caller will get a message refusing them if you don't wish to take their call the next time they ring. The cost of the service is approximately £10 per quarter for a maximum of 10 numbers. Ring BT on Freephone 0800 169 2707 for more details.
ADVICE
If you have a different telephone provider, contact them and ask if they have a similar service.

• You could refer to the Malicious Communications Act 1988. This deals with the sending of letters or articles for the purpose of causing 'distress or anxiety'. A person found guilty can be fined in the magistrates court. To prosecute successfully the letter or article sent would have to convey:
  • a message which is indecent or grossly offensive;
  • a threat; or
  • information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender.
• The Criminal Justice Act & Public Order Act 1994 Section (4)(a) makes it a criminal offence to cause 'harassment, alarm or distress' with intent by using 'threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour'. This can only be an offence if it happens in a public place, not in your own home. The police would need to be contacted and prosecute for this offence.
• The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 makes it a criminal offence to harass people and put 'people in fear of violence'. The harassment must happen on at least two separate occasions. The police would have to agree to prosecute for this offence. Phone us for advice.

RAS

Pixie

Thanks to Rog, the OFT guidelines on debt can be found at the following link:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/publications/guidance/consumer_credit_act/oft664


IYou might want to read it and specify which bits of the Guidleines this mob is breaking.

I know this sounds naff but I have found that you need to talk the language of the bodies you are talking to. So saying - they keep trying to get me to pay more may not work, but they are breaking OFT Guideline 2.6.f rings bells at the other end.

jcragg

PixiePie wrote: »

After having a particular gent verbally abuse me many times on the phone (despite me telling him to only write to me, hanging up on him etc etc, he kept calling and called me a fat slag, a fat waster, a lazy liar and worse) from RMA, I was stupidly (after all, sticks and stones etc) living in fear of another call from them, but then my case was transferred to a rather nice lady, who listened to what I had to say, thanked me for my time and just asked me to send my I&E into her. They also wanted my ref numbers from the National Debtline and CAB, but I refused to give these (I thought these were anon services and I certainly wouldn't have said some of the things I said to these people if I thought anyone could look at the transcripts and know it was me (not that I lied or anything, it's just very embarrassing).
though), and the others just once a day.

The reason that they need the reference numbers for the CAB is so that they can contact them direct and get all the info they need to set up a payment plan. also After working at RMA for a over a year and a half i have never heard any collector saying what you have described. if there is cause for a genuine complaint all calls are recorded now so it is very easy to follow up on these but i feel in this case there would be little to follow up on

PixiePie

jcragg wrote: »

PixiePie wrote: »

After having a particular gent verbally abuse me many times on the phone (despite me telling him to only write to me, hanging up on him etc etc, he kept calling and called me a fat slag, a fat waster, a lazy liar and worse) from RMA, I was stupidly (after all, sticks and stones etc) living in fear of another call from them, but then my case was transferred to a rather nice lady, who listened to what I had to say, thanked me for my time and just asked me to send my I&E into her. They also wanted my ref numbers from the National Debtline and CAB, but I refused to give these (I thought these were anon services and I certainly wouldn't have said some of the things I said to these people if I thought anyone could look at the transcripts and know it was me (not that I lied or anything, it's just very embarrassing).
though), and the others just once a day.

The reason that they need the reference numbers for the CAB is so that they can contact them direct and get all the info they need to set up a payment plan. also After working at RMA for a over a year and a half i have never heard any collector saying what you have described. if there is cause for a genuine complaint all calls are recorded now so it is very easy to follow up on these but i feel in this case there would be little to follow up on

So basically you are calling me a liar? Hmm, sounds just like the nasty man that shouted at me/called me names/was not at all professional (and is still calling despite the recorded letters and the OFT investigating it now).

At the end of the day, whilst the words might upset me short term, they can't actually do anything to me. The Office of Fair trading investigating these matters will find out the truth and stop it happening, which is all I ever wanted. And have the power to actually do something to the company. I totally sympathise with the company, they have a job to do and the very nice lady I spoke to who treated me like a human being was great, she can call everyday if she wants.

This post smells very trolly to me.

jcragg

no i wasnt calling you a liar just simply stating that has never happened to my knowledge what debt is this is in regards to (im guessing barclays) also if this is happening dont let it get you down your just 5 min work for rma and whoever is calling you and please give all refernce numbers for the CAB etc then we can get in touch with the =m and 9 times out of 10 the account can be placed on hold,

PixiePie

No, not Barclay,s not that it is *any* of your damn business what so ever.

And actually by saying "f there is cause for a genuine complaint all calls are recorded now so it is very easy to follow up on these but i feel in this case there would be little to follow up on" you are calling me a liar - either he called me a slag or not, if he did, this is a genuine complaint surely, in which case there is MUCH to follow up on, if he didn't I am a liar. And never to your knowledge? Is RMA so small that there are only 5 collectors and you know them all personally? Or are you actually God and therefore are aware of all that goes on?

Just read through the pages and pages and pages of similar posts to mine, and I know who I would believe.

The fact you are posting defending a company that obviously has very dubious business practises (as evidenced by the pages and pages of posts) speaks volumes imho. It's not the 5 minutes (or more like 15 minutes or 30 sometimes) that upsets me so so much. Its the fact that there are people like this in the world that actually can live with themselves after being so horrid to others, and that society actually encourages it by rewarding them with a job to do so. At the end of the day if they keep phoning they will be judged and found wanting - there is nothing what so ever they can do to me, in fact the one thing they could do would actually be a help, but carrying through threats isn't something spineless people who like to sit in a call centre and hurl abuse at others are very well known for.

Go away troll.

jcragg

lol very funny post. i just asked about if it was barclays as it would enable people on this board to help you more due to many different requirements. i do know a lot of people who work there and a lot i find are willing to help people who are in genuine difficulty, obviously as you wont tell them any reference numbers there unable to contact the CAB to get a FS to get a breakdown of your situation. unfortunately due to the nature of business were in very few people will go onto a forum like this and give positive feedback of a DCA which i hear on a day to day basis. no one likes being in this mess but speak to people properly and 9 times out of 10 they will treat you the same back which is something i always do no matter if they can pay or not that doesn't really bother me