Could I install new ceiling light or should I get a sparky in?

YorkshireBoy

andrew-b wrote: »

If the only component in the light is the bulb it shouldn't make any difference which way the live and neutral go.

Unless, of course, the fitting has ES/SES lampholders, in which case it very much does matter!

...make sure the electrics for the circuit your working in are off! Double check by turning on/off at the switch.

And what if there's a permanent live in the rose?

Best advice for DIYers, and especially for the OP in this thread, is always to switch off at the consumer unit on the main switch...even if this means re-programming timeclocks etc.

andrew-b

I meant turn off at the consumer unit...and then double check the circuit is off by testing whether the light bulb comes on or not still when using the light switch on the wall.
I've fallen into the same trap i was preaching about of advice being miscontrued! I set myself up nicely for that one!

Andy

YorkshireBoy

Just a little.

It's not easy to cover everything in a 2 minute post on an internet forum is it?

Maybe that's why my apprenticeship lasted 4 years (although it seemed much longer at the time!).

fluffpot

Regarding the point about dropping down a 3 core flex, this is because you will never safely fit all the existing wires in your new fitting and please don't try! The correct thing to do is to terminate them in a junction box in the ceiling space and then feed your new light with 3 core flex (live, neutral and earth) which is do-able in the space provided. Flex is fine to use for light fittings, I tend to use 1.0 or 1.5 mm squared size.

Don't forget also to make sure that you find the joist to screw into for the new fitting - or if one is not nearby, you can use a bit of timber to batten between joists.

Not really a 15 min job, I'm afraid!

weekendwarrior

fluffpot wrote: »

Regarding the point about dropping down a 3 core flex, this is because you will never safely fit all the existing wires in your new fitting and please don't try! The correct thing to do is to terminate them in a junction box in the ceiling space and then feed your new light with 3 core flex (live, neutral and earth) which is do-able in the space provided. Flex is fine to use for light fittings, I tend to use 1.0 or 1.5 mm squared size.

Don't forget also to make sure that you find the joist to screw into for the new fitting - or if one is not nearby, you can use a bit of timber to batten between joists.

Not really a 15 min job, I'm afraid!

I have fitted plenty of lights and always managed to fit them without using a junction box. In many cases you can't use a junction box as you have no access from above.

I guess some people are better off paying robin hood, I mean the sparky above £65

fluffpot

Even if not access from above, the 'rose' of the new fitting is large enough to cover a hole into which a junction box can be put. The OP's fitting looked very shallow to me, and there's no way I'd even try to squeeze all the cables in - they need to be treated with kindness!

BTW I always allow about an hour for replacing this type of light - that also includes testing to check that your system is properly earthed.

Mark_Roberts

fluffpot wrote: »

Even if not access from above, the 'rose' of the new fitting is large enough to cover a hole into which a junction box can be put. The OP's fitting looked very shallow to me, and there's no way I'd even try to squeeze all the cables in - they need to be treated with kindness!

BTW I always allow about an hour for replacing this type of light - that also includes testing to check that your system is properly earthed.

I'm glad someone mentioned testing the earth connection. Most people seem to think that because there is a earth wire present all is OK, but frequently you'll find them disconnected / missing else where in the circuit with potentially lethal results.

In my opinion use a couple of other junction blocks (same as already connected to the silver wires) join together the three red wires. Then join the two black wires on the left to one of the silver wires. Then join together the remaining silver wire to the black wire on the right (which should have a red or brown marker) Then join the three earth wires to the earth terminal on the light fitting.

Depending on the type of lamp fitting CAN effect which silver wire you connect to, if it's a standard bayonet then it doesn't matter but if it's a screw in ES / SES type then the live wire must go go to the centre of the lamp fitting.

If in doubt ring a spark, I charge about £35 if i have to make a special trip to do the job, you might catch a local chap on his way home who'll do it for less. Just don't use a chap down the pub who once wired a plug...

PeteW

Well thanks for all the advice, it all went well - the light works and I don't seem to have electricuted myself!

So onto the next project - installing a celing fan/light. I was hoping this would be just as simple, but I'm a little lost already - there are terminals for neutral and earth, which are fine, but there are two live terminals - one labelled light and one labelled fan. Which wires go here then...? The instructions mention a brown wire in one of these terminals (I think it was the fan one), but I don't have a brown wire other than the one attached to the original fitting!

The wiring in the rose is pretty much the same as the one I posted earlier except that there were only 2 red wires, not 3. And I think there may have only been one black wire, not two, but I'm not too sure about that and I'm not at home to check!

Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks

Mark_Roberts

PeteW wrote: »

Well thanks for all the advice, it all went well - the light works and I don't seem to have electricuted myself!

So onto the next project - installing a celing fan/light. I was hoping this would be just as simple, but I'm a little lost already - there are terminals for neutral and earth, which are fine, but there are two live terminals - one labelled light and one labelled fan. Which wires go here then...? The instructions mention a brown wire in one of these terminals (I think it was the fan one), but I don't have a brown wire other than the one attached to the original fitting!

The wiring in the rose is pretty much the same as the one I posted earlier except that there were only 2 red wires, not 3. And I think there may have only been one black wire, not two, but I'm not too sure about that and I'm not at home to check!

Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks

It sounds like the fan you wish to fit is at the end of the radial circuit, hence only two cables. One is the feed (or loop cable) from the previous fitting the second cable is the to the switch. At the beginning or middle of the radial you have another cable going off to the next light fitting.

Join the switched live (black with red / brown marker) to the live of the light, and neutral as before. But this time join the two reds together to the terminal marked 'fan'

This is because you want a permanent live supply so you can operate the fan without the lights being on.

weekendwarrior

fluffpot wrote: »

Even if not access from above, the 'rose' of the new fitting is large enough to cover a hole into which a junction box can be put. The OP's fitting looked very shallow to me, and there's no way I'd even try to squeeze all the cables in - they need to be treated with kindness!

BTW I always allow about an hour for replacing this type of light - that also includes testing to check that your system is properly earthed.

I'll try this the next time I change a light fitting, which junction boxes do you recommend?