What happens to state benefit in a recession

moggylover

MrsE wrote: »

I know about this (through work).
Its a cheaper system to run.
It means the genuine claimant gets less than they need & also they don't have the buying power of the government (getting services enmass at a competive price & some vunerable people could be overcharged or underserved) & the fiddler gets money they never should have:rolleyes:

How does that serve anybody?

It doesn't, because it is not meant to. It is just meant to keep us quiet and make us a "bone of contention" for those who will always look for the weakest in Society to blame for it's ills.

If we look closely at each and every recession we will see that those at the bottom (and many of those in the middle;) ) have had sweet s*d all to do with it coming about. The current one is down to bankers allowing greed to make them gamble on deals that were beyond the pale (with the hope that no-one would catch them at it and the knowledge that they had enough tucked away to support them when it all did go pear-shaped) and businesses that should not have been in the vast debts that they were in allowing that they had had a long period of boom in which to pay off loans and adopt some good housekeeping methods;) . In truth, the biggest problems will, once again, come from those businesses that had always lived on over-stretched credit for the sake of rapid-growth and not from the comparatively few over-large mortgages given to those who could not hope to afford them. Indeed, the problem in the States appears to have not been the people who could not afford to pay their mortgages, but those businesses that over-stretched their own borrowing in order to "lend" in the first place.;)

moggylover

gemmalouanna wrote: »

I do see what you are saying about the massive costs involved but if they would stamp down on the people lying to get DLA it could free up so much money for the people who genuinely need the actual care - which they should actually receive. My OH gets annoyed with the many cases he sees when drug users are in care and the care home de-registers and becomes private sending the costs from a flat £400 pw charge to £50 rent pw and around £2000 pw for the 'care package' and that is each week for them and this is of course increasing as there is much money to be obtained from the gov for running such an establishment - so that is why I think people like yourselves should get it....almost makes the costs you quote reasonable

I think that for some people who kick up a fuss because they expect DLA even though they don't qualify/don't really need it compared to others it is too easy to get - they appeal and often the appeals service don't seem to follow the actual LAW which the DM has to, they pass out every time the medical exam takes place - DM's are being encouraged to cut back of getting medical evidence due to the cost, they have even mentioned along the lines of 'giving the customer what they want' for customer satisfaction reasons! Friend who deals with fraud told us about a guy who was on highest rate mob for 'bad back' yet working as a roofer - someone recorded him up and down a ladder and he has claimed it was a 'good day' - this has been accepted and he is allowed to keep the benefit much to the annoyance of friend who wastes time on these cases - these are the idiots who use up the money people like you are entitled to

Well, I do agree on where you are coming from: what you miss totally is the whys and wherefores of the system, and the fact that big sticks are NOT going to ever solve the long term evolution. You are falling into the same category of simply condemning those that "cheat" according to YOUR standards and not looking at why the system is set up as it is, and not for workable answers as to how to stop it happening.

And, one thing I think we need to really get across: not EVERY drug addict or alcoholic that costs the Country money is from a sink estate;) . Cocaine is the popular drug of choice for a very large section of the upper middle classes, especially those working in "high-pressure jobs" such as those on the dealing floors, etc. Not all of them manage to keep it under control, many of them end up costing the Country in two ways:D . The only difference I see is that the middle or upper class junkies and alcoholics will be doing it with a better class of "gear", i.e. Glenlivet not Gaymers.;)

As to the "doctors" who asses for DLA - they get bonuses for turning claimants down, and usually pick on those that will have most difficulty fighting the system. The cost of then taking the matter to a tribunal SHOULD be reclaimed from these doctors and the Company that employs them when their "findings" are disproved. If one encourages THEIR corruption then one encourages it down the line.

As to those dependant upon drugs and alcohol? I abhore the fact that it happens, but would rather understand the WHYS and tackle those than poor filth and scorn on those that fall foul - because my scorn will not stop it from remaining a part of society.

As to DLA being easy to get! Don't kid yourself - even with major diffculties and reports from specialists one can find oneself looked at as a scrounger and refused - I have never been able to understand how some people "supposedly" get it easily.

However, to take you up on your good days comment. These can be quite genuine - I myself can walk, drive and cope very well sometimes for a couple of months at a time with just supervision. When my condition hits it is usually without warning and can leave me bed-ridden (i.e. PHYSICALLY unable to get my body to work and move off the bed) for equal or longer periods. That I could do some work (allowing that I usually have a lot of catching up around my own home to do) some of the time is not argued: what no-one will ever accept on here is that employers are just not going to put up with never knowing when you are going to be able to work and when not! Until we address this we have no way of getting many of those with variable conditions back into work, and as a wheelchair bound friend of mine always says: she is "lucky", she can work cos her legs are useless every day but there are no other variables to deal with - she is joking, but her point is true.

WTF?_2

huntersc wrote: »

And while I'm on the topic of education, whatever happened to the Rubik's cube? It was the best introduction to abstract algebra and group theory that a child could have. Now it's all about Play Stations at the age of 5. Give them a Rubik's cube and watch them learn, see how fascinated they become and they're learning something fantastic without even knowing it!

I was nuts about Rubiks cubes when I was a kid. However, I can't say that they taught me anything about algebra or maths generally. I just took the cheating path and got a book on how to do the cube and memorised all the moves.


(To be fair it wasn't just about memorisation - you had to identify various transformations of the 'cubelets' that needed to be done and then carry out a sequence of maybe 20 moves to do the transformation of edge or corner piece. So I suppose it was exercising your mind quite a bit even if you cheated and used that technique).

I used to be able to reliably solve it in under 40 seconds (often less than 30). I doubt I could do all that memorisation now though.....

gemmalouanna

moggylover wrote: »

And, one thing I thin we need to really get across: not EVERY drug addict or alcoholic that costs the Country money is from a sink estate;) . Cocaine is the popular drug of choice for a very large section of the upper middle classes, especially those working in "high-pressure jobs" such as those on the dealing floors, etc. Not all of them manage to keep it under control, many of them end up costing the Country in two ways:D . The only difference I see is that the middle or upper class junkies and alcoholics will be doing it with a better class of "gear", i.e. Glenlivet not Gaymers.;)

Totally agree and I know of a few who have Daddy to pay for their little 'recreational' habit!

SingleSue

I used to take my cube apart and put it back together with the colours in the right place.

I got bored quickly......

I do still have a rubiks cube which the children play with, they usually ask me for tips as I have completed it...I then have to admit to taking it apart.

gemmalouanna

moggylover wrote: »

As to the "doctors" who asses for DLA - they get bonuses for turning claimants down, and usually pick on those that will have most difficulty fighting the system.

The doctors are an external company employed by DLA and they are actual GP's so I think the idea of a bonus is not true. I also do not believe that they target the most vulnerable they are sent to cases with a big change in circumstances etc or where the needs according to the claimant do not fit with the claimes disability/medication eg. a person claiming to be unable to walk yet only taking paracetamol - of course things like this need to be further investigated.

moggylover

SingleSue wrote: »

I used to take my cube apart and put it back together with the colours in the right place.

I got bored quickly......

I do still have a rubiks cube which the children play with, they usually ask me for tips as I have completed it...I then have to admit to taking it apart.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

WTF?_2

SingleSue wrote: »

I used to take my cube apart and put it back together with the colours in the right place.

I got bored quickly......

I do still have a rubiks cube which the children play with, they usually ask me for tips as I have completed it...I then have to admit to taking it apart.

Heh heh - that's what most people started out doing. It was easy to do with the cheap cubes (lever an edge piece out) but a lot harder with the official 'Ideal' branded one. Which incidentally was a lot nicer to use as it had a great turning action. Mind you it was a massive five pounds instead of a quid for the cheapies, so most people couldn't afford it.

With the cheap ones you could put grease over the plastic cubelets to improve the turning action - though combined with the fact that taking it apart loosened the mechanism you would quite often get a cube that flew apart when trying to speed solve it.

Aaah, those were the days. Kids now would probably be snorting coke for kicks. :cool:

The_White_Horse

most children today are thick. its because they have been educated under a left wing dumbing down govt.

booo hoooo hoooo thacther took the milk away. at least she didn't take away learning!!! this lot have ruined a generation, and probably the next generation as well.

no discipline, lousy teachers. its hopeless. still, as long as some nonsensical targets are met, they think they are doing well.

this govt has failed everyone - except those on benefits.

gemmalouanna

moggylover wrote: »

However, to take you up on your good days comment. These can be quite genuine - I myself can walk, drive and cope very well sometimes for a couple of months at a time with just supervision. When my condition hits it is usually without warning and can leave me bed-ridden (i.e. PHYSICALLY unable to get my body to work and move off the bed) for equal or longer periods. That I could do some work (allowing that I usually have a lot of catching up around my own home to do) some of the time is not argued: what no-one will ever accept on here is that employers are just not going to put up with never knowing when you are going to be able to work and when not! Until we address this we have no way of getting many of those with variable conditions back into work, and as a wheelchair bound friend of mine always says: she is "lucky", she can work cos her legs are useless every day but there are no other variables to deal with - she is joking, but her point is true.

I am sure your condition has that aspect to it but the builder I mention claimed to be unable to walk EVER - then up and down a ladder??? Just a liar who should have it taken off him after all when first filling in the form he signed to say he agreed it was the truth.