Japanese Akita eats cats

gomer

Indeed it could very well open up a whole can of worms for many dog owners but it's important that we remember it's still only in the draft stages as we speak & will be reworded before release (if it even gets that far).

Obviously there would be more emphasis placed on owner responsibility so that blame gets shifted from the dog itself & enforcement would be influenced by how the dog behaves which is where dogs such as the Akita in this thread could well get themselves in bother, that's why i raised this because i know a lot of people may not know about it & at the moment the DDA affords us as owners a certain degree of immunity if our dog attacks/kills another animal on our property, if this new law gets passed then it wont be that easy to avoid prosecution in situations like this because it will no longer only be an offence if it happens in public - it will also include incidents on private property as well.

Seriously as owners of large breeds we need to wise up & think VERY seriously about how our dogs are behaving in public, this possible change in the law will effect all of us even if someone elses cat is killed on our own property by our dog.

Mrs_pbradley936

gomer wrote: »

Indeed it could very well open up a whole can of worms for many dog owners but it's important that we remember it's still only in the draft stages as we speak & will be reworded before release (if it even gets that far).

Obviously there would be more emphasis placed on owner responsibility so that blame gets shifted from the dog itself & enforcement would be influenced by how the dog behaves which is where dogs such as the Akita in this thread could well get themselves in bother, that's why i raised this because i know a lot of people may not know about it & at the moment the DDA affords us as owners a certain degree of immunity if our dog attacks/kills another animal, if this new law gets passed then it wont be that easy to avoid prosecution in situations like this because it will no longer only be an offence if it happens in public - it will also include incidents on private property as well.


Seriously as owners of large breeds need to think VERY seriously about how our dogs are behaving in public, this possible change in the law will effect all of us even if someone elses cat is killed on our own property by our dog.

I think they mean cases where the postman was attacked in a garden and I would agree with legislation to curb those incidents. Personally I would prefer a law which said that if you wanted a large dog you had to have a license for it. In parts of the USA they have that (I don't think it is law but a bye law sorry I don't know the difference) in other words if you want to live in a given area you cannot own a pet that weighs over 25lb. So you can have a cat or a small dog but if you want a bigger dog you have to move to an area that allows them.

They have lots of bye laws like that for example in adult only communities they have certain times when children may visit so your grandchildren can stay at certain times (certainly the main holidays) but at other times people need no fear kids on bikes, playing ball and generally doing what kids do. If however you live in a family friendly place then you cannot expect peace and quiet - it seems to work.

gomer

Why only large dogs? Have you seen the damage a terrier can do to postmen? We need a licence for ALL dogs so that all owners are forced to be more responsible, not just a breed specific licence only for certain breeds. Our local parks are inundated with small dogs that are completely out of control & it would be unfair to only expect the owners of certain breeds to be licenced while other people's dogs run riot unchecked & unlicensed.

It is because of breed specific legislation that we are in the current mess with ineffective dog laws that have not stopped attacks since they were introduced. It needs to be geared toward the type of owner who is buying these dogs, not the type of dog they are buying.

Certainly if you want a bigger dog you should be made to prove you are capable of being an adequate handler who does not take unnecessary risks & is responsible enough to keep the public & thier pets safe - if you can't or wont manage it properly then don't get a big dog.

I certainly would not be happy to pay for a license for my beautifully behaved dog just because of her size while other people's smaller dogs are routinely terrorising animals in the park & attacking people's dogs because they are so badly behaved in public.

Mrs_pbradley936

gomer wrote: »

Why only large dogs? Have you seen the damage a terrier can do to postmen? We need a licence for ALL dogs so that all owners are forced to be more responsible, not just a breed specific licence only for certain breeds.

Certainly if you want a bigger dog you should be made to prove you are capable of being an adequate handler who does not take unnecessary risks & is responsible enough to keep the public & thier pets safe - if you can't or wont manage it properly then don't get a big dog.

Well in the USA if you have a dog larger than 25lb you have to have additional house insurance in many states anyway. With large dogs they can do more damage in a shorter time frame, plus I could take on a Jack Russell but not a German Shepherd that attacked me. If I hit a Jack Russell as hard as I could I would probably kill it - if I hit a large dog as hard as I could I would probably make it more angry.

Size/weight is easy to measure and you would not have all the stupid things that happened when the DDA first came about "Well I think it is a Pitbull" "Well in my opinion it is a cross between a Boxer and a Labrador". Breed identity is not an issue - if it weighs 25lb or less you need not comply with any legislation at all. It it weighs more than that you do. What that legislation should be needs to be debated by people that know and care about dogs or else those than know nothing will get their own way.

gomer

I would be amazed if you can't see how flawed that idea is. So it's ok if a dog under 25kg attacks a child and seriously injures them as long as it wasn't above 25kg?? It's not the dog that's the issue - it's the people who own them that cause the problems.

A license doesn't stop irresponsible dog owners being irresponsible, people who take risks with safety will still take risks.

Mrs_pbradley936

gomer wrote: »

I would be amazed if you can't see how flawed that idea is. So it's ok if a dog under 25kg attacks a child and seriously injures them as long as it wasn't above 25kg?? It's not the dog that's the issue - it's the people who own them that cause the problems.

A license doesn't stop irresponsible dog owners being irresponsible, people who take risks with safety will still take risks.

Well it is not 25 kilos it is 25lb and I am only saying what goes on and works well in some areas of the USA. If those that do care about dogs do not debate and come to a conclusion about what they want then they will get legislation that they do not want. Something like "all dogs to be muzzled when not inside owners home" or something.

It is obviously not OK if a small dog attacks a child but the facts are that when children are hurt or killed it is often "The usual suspects". However you cannot debate this sensibly even on here because someone will tell you that they know wonderful Dobermanns and Rottweilers and bad tempered Yorkies. They forget that a Yorkie could not easily kill a child but a large dog could.

orlao

Mrs_pbradley936 wrote: »

Size/weight is easy to measure and you would not have all the stupid things that happened when the DDA first came about "Well I think it is a Pitbull" "Well in my opinion it is a cross between a Boxer and a Labrador". Breed identity is not an issue - if it weighs 25lb or less you need not comply with any legislation at all. It it weighs more than that you do. What that legislation should be needs to be debated by people that know and care about dogs or else those than know nothing will get their own way.

The Irish version of the DDA is enforced on weight.....and believe me, it's not a success....it's the reason I'm here in the UK now instead of spending the holidays with my family in Dublin! In the 20 years since I've lived in this country I've always brought my dogs "home" on any visit longer than a week or at this time of year when my dog sitters are busy. I won't be doing that after they started enforcing the law to the letter in Dublin in the past 18 months/2 years. My dog would have to be muzzled and kept on a lead AT ALL TIMES despite the fact that his manners (if I say so myself:o )are better than many dogs and as gomer said 95% of small dogs, my JRTs included. Yet my dads nutty 18kg collie is free to run riot....and she does!

I've posted before about this law, IMHO it is worse than a breed specific law as so many dogs suffer........fine, when it's the scary rotts, GSDs and Akitas you might say.....but if it was a Lab or a fat BC....still ok?

The other part about being prosecuted if my dogs bit someone or killed an animal on MY property...I'm speechless...what was a person doing there in the first place? bypassing locked gates and a sign warning of loose dogs? Tough, if you get bitten ( or more likely with my dog, have to wait until I get home to get out) then it's your own lookout! Again with animals, as I posted originally re the cat killing if my dogs were to kill a cat in my garden, while I would feel rotten for the cat and it's owners I wouldn't expect to be penalised for it! I say this as a cat owner who's cats go out....in those circs I would really appreciate if the dogs owners let me know what had happened but I wouldn't blame them or the dog.

orlao

Mrs_pbradley936 wrote: »

It is obviously not OK if a small dog attacks a child but the facts are that when children are hurt or killed it is often "The usual suspects". However you cannot debate this sensibly even on here because someone will tell you that they know wonderful Dobermanns and Rottweilers and bad tempered Yorkies. They forget that a Yorkie could not easily kill a child but a large dog could.

You are right on that point.....my concern is mainly that it's the thin edge of the wedge IYSWIM....my rott is nearly 5 now and in that time I've seen the "anti dog" movement gather pace both here and in Ireland. It starts with effectively banning large or perceived to be dangerous dogs from public places and very quickly moves to banning dogs altogether. This is often media led with many inaccuracies....which is probably why so many of us responsible owners may labour the point that not all the usual suspects are as depicted and IMHO that is nessasary (sp!) so while I hope you don't think that I'm saying that all rotts are angels ( as many dogs of ALL breeds are being ruined by their owners) I do think it is important to remind people that they do make fantastic pets in the right hands.

gomer

Mrs_pbradley936 wrote: »

Well it is not 25 kilos it is 25lb and I am only saying what goes on and works well in some areas of the USA. If those that do care about dogs do not debate and come to a conclusion about what they want then they will get legislation that they do not want. Something like "all dogs to be muzzled when not inside owners home" or something.

It is obviously not OK if a small dog attacks a child but the facts are that when children are hurt or killed it is often "The usual suspects". However you cannot debate this sensibly even on here because someone will tell you that they know wonderful Dobermanns and Rottweilers and bad tempered Yorkies. They forget that a Yorkie could not easily kill a child but a large dog could.

Pounds, kilo's whatever - it's the idea of breed specific legislation itself that is still flawed for a million reasons. Have you any idea how out of control the situation is in the USA because of thier system? It really isn't as simple as you might think & applying licensing only to certain breeds percieved to be more dangerous than a smaller dog would do nothing to help the current scaremongering & witch hunting we have to deal with because of the DDA everytime a Rottweiler so much as farts in the wrong direction, it would make it worse. At the end of the day it is not a size issue & you are looking at the wrong end of the lead if you think licensing certain large breeds will suddenly make irresponsible idiots who shouldn't even own a goldfish more responsible.

I don't want to sound patronising because i want to keep this a healthy debate but i really think you would see this from a totally different perspective if you owned a large breed yourself - bare in mind that the people who have expressed serious concern about the behaviour of the dog being dicussed here are large breed owners themselves who all find what this dog is doing to cats totally abhorrent because we know that all it takes is for one dog of a certain breed to get in trouble & they all get tarred with the same brush.

I honestly do apreciate the ideology of your thinking but as we have seen time & time again (at the cost of children's lives) that legislating only against certain breeds just makes those breeds more atractive to the wrong people who are never going to be responsible owners anyway - license or no license, people who leave small children unattended with dangerous dogs will STILL leave small children unattended with dangerous dogs..

moomin5

Oh dear that weight rule is laughable, just because some place in US thought it was a good rule doesn't mean it is. In texas you can keep tigers and other exotic animals in your back yard http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2835

I agree with Gomer, many large breeds of dog have more docile natures than small ones and all dogs have teeth designed for making light work of flesh. An adult might be able to fight off a JR but a child might not. I would think a pitbull could probably fall under 25kg as my greyhounds are 30kg although before i get flamed i know pitties are not devil dogs given the right owner/upbringing. The problem normally lies with irresponsible owners than breed/size of dog.

Thinking back to original post you can get angled brackets with mesh/wire for top of fences which make it difficult for the dog to jump over if the dog is escaping that way, rather than just a open gate. Not sure if that may then trap cats in the garden or if a dog run would be cheaper option.