threatened with bailiffs!!!!

malifax_2

What would happen if the TV was sold to a neighbour for 1p and rented back with both a recipet and rent book showing change of ownership could they take it still or is it theft?

triffidfood

Fantastically useful topic everyone!

It's 2:30am & I'm too tired to go into details, but suffice to say we had a bailiff knocking yesterday re. unpiad Council Tax [the Council messed up with that, incidentally] .. luckily we didn't let him in, which having read the extremely useful information on this topic I'm very glad about.

Anyway, please could somebody clarify something for me ~ is it the case that bailiffs can only gain entry to a property (1) with permission and (2) "peacefully", in other words both these things, or only the second of these?

In other words, can a bailiff can entry "peacefully" (without breaking anything or shooting anyone :rolleyes: ) but without permission?

Also, I was considering putting the following notice on our front door (actually, it's really a side door in an alley so it's not that public):

PLEASE NOTE, ENTRY TO THIS PROPERTY IS NOT PERMITTED TO ANY PERSON REPRESENTING “[name of collection agency]"

~ ANY SUCH PERSON WHO ATTEMPTS TO ENTER THIS PROPERTY WILL THEREFORE BE DOING SO WITHOUT CONSENT OR PERMISSION

[Sorry to shout, I know it's bad netiquette.... ]

Is there any point doing this? Would this at least help to establish (from a legal point of view) our intention NOT to permit entry to the bailiff(s)?

Also, going back to my previous question, would the bailiff(s) still be within their rights to attempt to enter our house even if I did print this notice out & stick it on our door?

Any thoughts would be really welcome..... (Now I'm going to try to get some sleep :mad: )

triffidfood

Another question which has also just occured to me..

I moved in with my partner fairly recently (in November 2005), and took very little in the way of posessions with me. Is it possible to argue that any goods of value in the house are actually my partners, and therefore not my posessions for any bailiff to take (the outstanding debt relates to Council Tax at my previous address), or would anything in the house suddenly be considered joint posession as we're now living together and therefore legitimate for them to take?

Once again any thoughts really welcome (now I am going to bed!)

davek1

triffidood

Firstly Bailliffs do not need permission to enter if they can do so peacfully ie; through an open door or window. Once they have effected entry then they can do what they have to. So your permission is not needed as such. if you were in the house and said go away i'm not letting you in but they found a back door open and cam ein throught that then you are stuck.

In honesty i don't think the sign you suggest has any legal standing whatsoever. It's a bit like the tresspassers will be prosecuted there is no criminal offence of tresspass except under the firearms act and the theft act which wouldn't apply here. There is a civil matter but Bailliffs can't tresspass as they are either acting on behalf of the court or the claimant.

If having gained entry to the premises the bailliffs seize goods it is for you to prove they are not yours either by way of receipt or letter from the owner of the goods. They can not seize goods which are on HP or are not the belongings of the debtor, but as i said you have to prove this. Maybe get your partner to write a list of the goods she owns and sign and date that. Make it clear in the letter that you have no interest in that property listed and that bailliffs should not remove those goods.

Just a point about the council tax though. Does the debt relate to the address you live in now? if so then surely your partner is responsible for it as well? because if that is the case then her goods could be seized in any event.

Hope this helps

Dave

THE_LONE_RANGER_4

Hi, Ive Had Dealings With Ballifs If They Get There Foot Through The Door There In Im Afraid ,its Best To Talk To The Ballif Try And Sort Some Payments Out They Will Not Go Away ,sell Some Of Your Stuff Instead Of Letting Them Take Your Stuff You Will Get More Money Than Them ,if You Havent Got Much Let Them See That They Will Then Go Away And You May Get An Attachment Of Earnings This Is How Our Councill Do It If Your Employed They Go To Court Then Straight To Earnings This Happened To Me My Take Home Was 1200 They Took 110 Per Month It Hurt But Atleast Its Gone Now And Up To Date Hope This Info Helps Reguards Andrew

Justicia

calmgirl wrote:

If the baliffs do turn up and get into the house etc. etc. our debt is paid and we have a blank canvas to start again

Is it the case that if the goods seized and sold at auction do not cover the outstanding debt that the possession process can continue to attempt to retrieve the "shortfall?" This is a question, not a factual statement - I suspect that one of the regular posters in this thread will know

THE LONE RANGER; do you manually type a capital at the start of every word or do you have a program that does it? Not having a go, just wondering

rsykes2000

Justicia wrote:

THE LONE RANGER; do you manually type a capital at the start of every word or do you have a program that does it? Not having a go, just wondering

The forum software does it if you type with Caps Lock on. Makes it slightly less irritating to read, but still far more difficult than normal lower-case typing.

triffidfood

davek1,

Thanks for your reply...

davek1 wrote:

triffidood

Bailliffs do not need permission to enter if they can do so peacfully ie; through an open door or window [...]

Okay, thanks for that ~ that answers my question.

In honesty i don't think the sign you suggest has any legal standing whatsoever. It's a bit like the tresspassers will be prosecuted there is no criminal offence of tresspass except under the firearms act and the theft act which wouldn't apply here. There is a civil matter but Bailliffs can't tresspass as they are either acting on behalf of the court or the claimant.

What I had in mind, is that the explanation I've read (elsewhere online) for bailffs being permitted (bizarrely) to gain access through open doors or windows, is that an open door or window (!?) is taken to be an invitation to anyone with a lawful purpose to enter if they wish (including, obviously, bailiffs).

If we had a sign up specifically denying access to the bailiffs, wouldn't that act to counteract this legal 'justification'?

Maybe get your partner to write a list of the goods she owns and sign and date that. Make it clear in the letter that you have no interest in that property listed and that bailliffs should not remove those goods.

Okay, good idea, thanks.

Just a point about the council tax though. Does the debt relate to the address you live in now?

No, it relates to my previous address, a rented flat where I lived on my own. I actually (genuinely) took very few goods of any value with me when I moved, so most of the goods of value we have are in fact my partners, in reality.

Anyway, I've contacted the Council and suggested they withdraw the warrant from the bailiffs (my payment 'default' was entirely due to the Council messing up, failing to respond to communications & failing to send out a payment card & instalment plan, despite my requesting these). They are going to get back to me so we'll see what happens.

calmgirl

triffid, try not to worry too much, it wasn't your fault and it is up to them to sort it out. We were able to pay a lump sum off our debt which really helped and now we have an arrangement to pay20.00 a week or more so don't despair, it really doesn't do them any good to be so inflexible.

triffidfood

Just a quick question, can bailiffs remove goods without a Walking Posession Order having actually been signed (signed by the person who's goods are being seized)?

In other words, if a bailiff gains entry to a property, can s/he then simply remove goods on a first visit without a signed WPO (if for instance, the 'debtor' disputes that the goods listed are actually theirs)?