economy seven & ten tariffs

paul_h

chas1937 wrote:

So now just waithing on Scottish Power bill coming in which would have been dearer so they have decided to give me 25% discount on it and that should be end of matter,I hope.

I would assume the 25% discount would work out in your favour, so that should be handy!

Hope it sorts out OK.

chas1937

Yes looks like i will be getting something back for all the hassle I,ve had with both of them

gerryfitz

Paul_h

Many thanks for your advice, that makes sense.

However, from what I could see both cables from both switches seemed to go into the same part of the immersion heater?

I'm back home in the NE now so I'll have to get my daughter to ask her new neighbours (in London) if they can advise which switch is which.

Regards

gERRY

paul_h

gerryfitz wrote:

However, from what I could see both cables from both switches seemed to go into the same part of the immersion heater?

There are some more uncommon economy 7 type cylinders, but on the most common type I described the two supplies normally feed two completely separate heaters, one at the bottom of the cylinder and one around the middle.

If your daughter is still unsure after speaking to the neighbours, an electrician will be able to tell her quickly if the system is correctly fitted and which switch is which.

gerryfitz

Paul,

Thanks again. They definitely feed in at the same place, whether they then go elsewhere inside the cylider I know not.

I'll get my daughter to have someone check it out for her.

Reagrds,
Gerry

chris89_2

I have Economy 10 from Powergen. There are 3 tariffs: cheap night rate, cheap storage heater rate & a full day rate. There are 2 meters and 3 readings. We were just as confused when we moved in. After a lot of hassle and differing stories we wrote to the MD of Powergen & got a reply from his office. This did not entirely clarify the situation in full at the time, but we now know that the Night Storage Rads come on at: 02.30am to 07.30am and boost again from 13.30 to 16.00 and lastly 22.00 to 00.30am. This is much better than Economy 7 which we have had in the past as the rads are boosted nicely for the evening. There is a seperate meter for the Storage Rad circuit. We also have a night rate which runs from midnight to 7.30am (at the same tariff as the storage rads). All other times per full day tariff.
Our immersion uses the night rate tariff via ONE lead connected to a simple timer control panel. This is timed to come on during the night, but we use it wisely as we have had an electric shower fitted, have a dishwasher and boil a kettle to wash up etc so we don't always heat lots of unwanted tanks of water unless we particularly fancy a bath or when we have visitors staying over.
Also, we time the washing machine/tumble dryer/diswasher to come on after midnight to take advantage of the cheaper tariff. we use simple plug in timers for this. In between, say autumn & spring, we don't always have the storage rads on for the 3 times and manually turn certain ones off from say boosting in the afternoon if the temp outside is say 50F + degrees. Also check how long the immersion comes on for. Is it nescessary for a long period as say 2 - 2.5 hrs only may be enough for your needs. We have a warm 3 bed G2 listed cottage with 5 storage rads elect shwr, immersion, wash. mchne, tumble dryr, dish washer & electric range cooker. We often use a steamer instead of boiling say vedge on cooker rings and also use the microwave sometimes instead of the cooker, but still use the ovens quite often for roast, cakes etc. Good practice saw our 1st 12 mth bill to Nov.2005 at £740 and we did not have the electric shower till May & until then we were heating the immersion in the night for 5 hrs & often boosting it for an hour in the afternoon (at full day rate) for baths up until then.
Hope this will help.

Cardew

chris89,
It certainly seems to be a much better system than E7. Most of the criticism of E7 storage heating is that there is little heat left in the evenings when you need it most. A couple of questions if I may:

What cost(rate) is charged for the boost periods from 13:30 to 16:00 & 22:30 to 00:30?(in relation to your day and night rates)

Is your full daytime and nightime rate the same as Powergen's 'normal' Economy 7 rates for your area.

Does your E10 system tie you to Powergen? or could you change to another utility company?

paul_h

These tariffs are excellent if you can get them, unfortunately they are not universally available.

Generally, the E10, 'warmwise', 'heatwise', or white meter tariffs have higher rates than E7, usually around 0.5-1p per kWh more for all off-peak, the daytime rates are the same I believe, and the standing charge is higher.

There are few suppliers which accept E10 customers - you can move supplier, but is not as easy as moving a standard or economy7 suppy.

chris89_2

E10 tariff from Powergen is currently per kWh:
Day primary units 7.960p for the first 477 units used
Day secondary units 7.640p i.e those units used over 477
Night units 4.040p
Stored Units i.e Storage heaters only 4.040p

The storage heaters have their own meter and circuit Whenever they switch on, i.e three times per day, the charge is 4.04p
The other meter for the ring/lighting circuits is 4.04p from midnight to 7.30am effectively to heat water more cheaply but that's why we put things like the wash machine/diswasher on timers during the night. The day rate is split: 7.96p for first 477 units used thereafter 7.64p per unit.

I cannot tell you what the E7 tariff is, but I understand from the previous owner of this propertyy is was a little cheaper but the extra cost was worth it for the boost for exactly the reasond you state.

According to another reply I may be able to switch but am probrably limited to a few suppliers. However I am happy at present.

Hope this helps.

Cardew

chris89 wrote:

E10 tariff from Powergen is currently per kWh:
Day primary units 7.960p for the first 477 units used
Day secondary units 7.640p i.e those units used over 477
Night units 4.040p
Stored Units i.e Storage heaters only 4.040p

The storage heaters have their own meter and circuit Whenever they switch on, i.e three times per day, the charge is 4.04p
The other meter for the ring/lighting circuits is 4.04p from midnight to 7.30am effectively to heat water more cheaply but that's why we put things like the wash machine/diswasher on timers during the night. The day rate is split: 7.96p for first 477 units used thereafter 7.64p per unit.

I cannot tell you what the E7 tariff is, but I understand from the previous owner of this propertyy is was a little cheaper but the extra cost was worth it for the boost for exactly the reasond you state.

According to another reply I may be able to switch but am probrably limited to a few suppliers. However I am happy at present.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the figures.

They certainly don’t make it easy to calculate whether E10 or E7 is your best bet.

Your night and heater ‘boost’ tariff at 4.04p is much higher than E7 rates. (BG rates are around 2p(including VAT) depending on your geographic location.) This is quite a bit more than the figure of 0.5-1.0p kWh that Paul_h stated above.

On the other hand your daytime rates are considerably cheaper than the daytime rates on E7.

Whilst your heaters are on a separate circuit for the afternoon and boost periods is there anything in the agreement that prevents you re-wiring to utilise the cheap supply for immersion heater and other uses(washing machine/dryer/dishwasher) during those boost periods?