Can you be OS with costly principles?

gailey_2

Thanks everyone for replies

Am going to take trip to local butcher and greengrocer tuesday as was browsing them today butcher looked nice but mostly red meat and tasty homemade sausages hubby will love prob cheaper than supermarket ones.
I dont mind comprimising on less meat and buying better but hubbys loves his meat and has not been keen on alternatives such as lentils and qourn so rely on mostly frozen fish or rdeuced fish/fish on offer as works out cheaper than meat.

I think poultry is more pricey and prob cheaper in supermarket so might eat more red meat

As for veg organic would be nice but out of my reach although did read the big 3 most important organics are milk,apples and carrots as most pesticides just wash everything else well.
For me whats important is tastygood quality veg that will last and supporting local farms/shops would be nice too.

I think seasonality important issue to but with stuff all year round lots of people dont realise whats in season and when. I only eat clementines in nov/dec and berries taste better in summer its easier to tell with fruit than veg.

We are very lucky in bristol as have some local greengrocers 2 stokes and 1 independant which seems nicer and local farm shop.
There are also 3 realy good butchers on other side of bristol in more affluent clifton as well as organic supermarket fresh and wild but again proves my point would be 45min bus jouney£4 bus fare and 2 buses for me to get there from outside suberb of bristol.
We have a weekly farmers market in city centre which we visited but hubby said pricey and he felt buying direct should be cheaper?
We also visited 2 farm shops one just outside bristol and 1 in chippenham and he loved them both but said would work out too pricey on regular basis.

Going to try healthfood shop and see if dried good any cheaper than supermarket or find new interesting meat substitues.

Hubby would love to keep hens but garden bit small and not sure landlord be too pleased.
we did have small veg patch which was lovley and grew more this year than last.

I have researched meat/veg boxes but not many deliver to us seems pricey and dont like idea of surprise box as hubby fussy with veg so dont want any to go to waste. Also with fruit and beg as well as meat like to see in flesh before I buy hence my reluctance to buy from supermarket online as I dont trust staff to pick me the best and have worked for supermarket who have done home shopping so know how it can work wont tell you all as might horrify you!

Its just with credit cruch and job losses how many people find they are making sacrifices rather than comprimises and feel as if their principles are being squeezed and have less choices due to being on lower budget?

Would be intresting if they could measure organic and free range sales figures now against pre credit cruch to see what effect the economy has had on our priciples.

I mean chicken out campaign happened jan 2008 and jaimie did his programme about foul dinners and poultry sales of fre range rocketed many supermarkets could not keep up with demand and sold out.
Im sure now dec 2008 a lot of peopel have switched back to cheap chicken again as availibility in sainsburys now seems very good.
Hes just about to do programme on prk so will see what happens there but we dont really eat much pork apart from ham and bacon.

misskool

Caterina wrote: »

Edited to say: does anyone really trust whatever the Food Standards Agency says, they are a government body and I bet they are funded and financed (directly or indirectly) by the food industry, industrial donations etc... who knows...The long arm of Monsanto (genetic engineering giant) and the enormous financial interests behind intensive farming make me very suspicious of any established body that tries to persuade me that the newfangled ways are better than the millennia-established farming practices (which is all what organic is after all!). Ok, I shut up for real now!

Scientists have to declare conflict of interests. As in all walks of life, there are always a few bad apples but you should be rest assured that most of us have ethics and morals.

On the point of genetic engineering, be aware that the crops that are eaten have been genetically engineered but not to the point of what you consider to be grotesque. Edible crops have been selected and crossed to obtain colour and aesthetics. Carrots were actually purple and it is through genetic selection (engineering) that the carrots you eat are orange.

Of course, including genes from other species may seem aberrant but the cells in your body have also adapted genes from other bacteria (prokaryotes) from many millenia ago. Perhaps speeding up the process in plants isn't acceptable to some but it does happen.

Debt_Free_Chick

Make your meat stretch further by using thrifty cuts. Skirt of beef is cheap and makes great HM burgers or steak hache. Buy a slighter larger joint of beef to roast and use the leftovers for Cottage Pie (same with lamb & Shepherd's Pie).

I too am more interested in provenance rather than the organic label. I rather feel that "organic" has become the latest "must-have designer label" and some women even sneer if you don't "eat organic". And there are some mums, I think, who believe that all non-organic food is poison! :rotfl:

There are many small, local producers of food which is "organic" in principle, but they can't use that label simply as they haven't registered with the Soil Association. Registration - whilst I accept it monitors standards - costs a fortune for a small producer. I know my vegetables are grown to organic standards, but I couldn't sell them as organic.

For storecupboard foods, I really can't see that a tin of organic tomatoes in your pasta dish is really going to make a huge difference to the nutrional quality of the final dish, etiher.

I've not bought meat in a supermarket for more than five years - if you change only one thing, I'd suggest that you find a good local butcher and make a friend of him.

cupid_s

Do you have a farmers market near you? At ours a dozen of that mornings free range eggs are £1.60, 6 duck eggs are £1. The meat is expensive but they have the cheap cuts that supermarkets usually don't stock so I suppose it could end up costing about the same

Caterina

misskool wrote: »

Edible crops have been selected and crossed to obtain colour and aesthetics. Carrots were actually purple and it is through genetic selection (engineering) that the carrots you eat are orange.

Of course, including genes from other species may seem aberrant but the cells in your body have also adapted genes from other bacteria (prokaryotes) from many millenia ago. Perhaps speeding up the process in plants isn't acceptable to some but it does happen.

Yes to selecting carrots to go from purple to orange, selected genetically without tampering with their basic structure, no to introducing genes from other species etc..., I understand what you are saying about human adapted to bacteria etc, but I would much rather let nature take its course rather than have my food tampered with in a lab.

I am not a luddite and anti-science/anti-progress but I really feel that plants and animals know how to grow and prosper with only minimal human intervention and I would much rather leave it at that rather than twist and tweak - if it ain't broke, why fix it? is my way of thinking here.

I really do not want to get into a discussion on genetic engineering of food, it is long, convoluted and would take too much space on this forum. Also although I am well informed on the issue (something I have been following for years ever since it has come to the attention of the general public) I do not have the language to reply to a scientific argument.

Also I hope I did not offend re. my statement on the Food Standards Agency, I was not having a go at scientists but at governmental organisations (which in my view are on the whole politically-led therefore open to party bias therefore open to corruption).
Don''t even start me on nano-tech!:eek:

Hope it clarifies my position.

Caterina

gailey_2

Debt free chick your post made me chuckle as lots of organic mummies here when I was weaning and pureeing maniac I got caught up in organic as she was so young.
Must admit gm worries me just want to buy natural quality produce locally at reasonable price.
We dont eat much red meat although hubby likes odd steak and we eat mince once a week in something.
Is skirt a good cut as seen beef skirt seemed fairly cheap.
Going to go local butcher tue and get some stuff and try and compare green grocers with aldis prices but only ever go aldis once a month as not close and prefer produce weelky/fortnightly.

we have farmers market every wed but £4 bus fare into centre before i buy anything.

We dont have a good normal food market like cardiff which I really miss.

gailey_2

Useful things

iceland used to brag that no gm foods in their own brands but they dont seem to do many own brand stuff and I find them quite pricey on groceries plus their meat is awful they sued ti do 6free range for 3 1 which is good.

waitrose have said they will use free range eggs in all their own brand stuff yes they ethical an good qulaity but comes at a price!

m&s seems very ethically are and their oakam stuff is fab yes comes at a price but if you shop wisly you can find some bargains like dine for 10 or multi buys and money off and recently noticed they started reducing for custmers.

Sainsburys seems to boast about its caring credentials and does have wide range of organic and free range and evn their basic salom fillets says on packs ethically resourced fish?

Morrisions and tesco seem to try and outline how they try to promote local and regional produce. I find tesco willow farm reasonably priced produce.

As for discounters who knows like aldis and lidls and from airmiles most of it imported.

Blairweech

I don't think that 'organic' is a bandwagon. I think that cooking and eating good food is becoming more important to people now - we are getting fussy about what we are putting in our bodies, and where it all comes from.

Unfortunately, food is one of the places where 'ethical' and 'saving money' do not run hand in hand. Yes, buying organic, free range, local IS more expensive - you are right, the supermarkets always have offers on junk food - crisps etc. But you have to choose what to do with your money - do you want MORE junk food like crisps or LESS better quality food like organic meat?
This always seems backward to me, as less actual 'stuff' has gone into organic, so how can it cost more?

I think it is important to remember that british standards for animal welfare are very high - no not perfect, but better than the rest of Europe. So buying meat from the UK is better.

From 'The Rough Guide to Ethical Living'
The best research into supermarkets and animal welfare is done by Compassion in World Farming, which in a 2007 poll ranked the supermarkets out of a possible 5 points:

1. M&S - 3.99
2. Waitrose - 3.98
3. Co-Op - 2.88
4. Sainsburys - 2.67
5. Tesco - 2.63
6. Morrisons - 2.36
7. Somerfield - 1.89
7. Asda - 1.86

It is correct that to get organic certification from the Soil Association is very expensive, so a lot of small procucers do not get it, but they are organic. So, really, the best bet is to go direct to a farmer and talk to them about how they farm. The same goes with the butcher - they are so friendly, speak to them about where their meat comes from (a good butcher will know this, a bad 'butcher' who simply buys his meat from a wholesaler will not)

That £2 ready meal from Iceland - yes it is cheaper, but it also full of rubbish. Loads of salt, MSG...who really knows what else? Home cooked food, you know exactly what goes into it, and it tastes nicer. There are lots of things I used to buy from the supermarket that I thought I loved, but compared to homemade they are disgusting.

Something that is often suggested on here - and I have done it with my ex - to bring your DH round...let him go to Iceland and fill his trolley with junk. In the meantime, you go to the butcher and grocer and get nice organic produce. Then at dinnertime, you and your daughter can sit, enjoying a lovely homemade meal that you KNOW is full of nutritious stuff, whilst he eats disgusting burgers and chips that probably taste like the inside of a car tyre. He will soon want to be part of your gang

To help you with what is in season veg-wise, check out www.eattheseasons.co.uk

Also - fruit and veg. The monopoly that the supermarkets have on producers is incredible. Their favourite trick is to agree to buy say, 80% of a farmers produce for, say £500/tonne. When it gets to about 2 weeks before the harvest, they turn around to the farmer and say 'Oh, we are only going to give you £100/tonne now or we will source it elsewhere'. Of course, by then, it is too late for the farmer to sell his produce to anyone else, so he is forced to accept.

After all this preaching I personally would rather buy local than organic, as it keeps the farmers in business, and it is not flown from half way over the world. Stuff such as bananas, coffee, tea which can't be grown in England (although there is a tea plantation in Cornwall), I would rather buy Fairtrade. I am going to try next year to not use supermarkets - I am planning on doing monthly storecupboard shop at Co-Op, then buying meat from the butcher, veg from the grocer etc. I have applied for an allotment, which I will find out about in the New Year and hope to be growing my own veg - the best food I have ever eaten is fresh picked sweetcorn from a friend's garden.

Debt_Free_Chick

gailey wrote: »

Is skirt a good cut as seen beef skirt seemed fairly cheap.

Skirt is one of those cuts that ought to be cooked long and slow. However, if it's ground/minced - as for burgers or hache - then it works as a flash-fry cut. I guess that the mincing breaks down the tough fibres I only ever use skirt for burgers. But - as I said earlier - I have an excellent local butcher and the beef is that he rears himself. It's also well-hung (for 23-28 days) which makes a huge difference to the taste and texture.

HTH

lka200

I love a debate especially when i hear eggs and chicken meat mentioned.
The above picture is one of my ex battery hens. she is just a typical example of what a battery hen looks like.
I am involved with the rehoming of ex battery hens and see first hand the condition of the birds.
You will be pleased to know that her and my other 9 ex batts are loving their new free range life here at home.
I will only ever buy free range chicken. i haven't always done it but since my involvement with ex batts and seeing many who look as though they should be wrapped in clingfilm and lined up on a supermarket shelf, i refuse blank to eat any chicken which isnt free range.
Ex battery hens after slaughter are processed into chicken nuggets, baby food, pet foods and chicken pies amongst others.
As for eggs??? i havent bought any for 5 years as i have plentiful supplies from my lovely hens and people ripping my arm off to buy them.
Cheap supermarket chicken the 2 for a fiver jobbies are bred to put weight on as quickly as possible. They are slaughtered at 12-16 weeks old with many unable to stand up due to the weight they have to bear.
I dont eat much chicken these days...its because i cant afford to buy free range so i go without.
This is just my view and my personal feelings and i am not preaching or anything like that but i will always speak up for the welfare of chickens as i adore them..they are the best pets in the world.
Intensive farming is the most cruel way to produce food IMO and especially chickens and turkeys.
I am buying the turkey for christmas dinner, we are eating at mums and there are 5 of us.
I have put a deposit down at the local butchers of £20 and will pick the turkey up on christmas eve morning, and pay the remaining balance(about £20-30). The turkey will be free range bronze feathered and sourced locally(within 10 miles)
I refuse to eat a turkey that more than likely had never seen the light of day and could not support its own weight whilst alive.
Will anyone else be having free range turkey this year?