Credit Card & Loan Balance's Wipped Clean !!!

~Brock~

NickX wrote: »

Don't be so sure about that. CAB (Citizen's Advice Bureau) will regularly advise its clients to request the CCA (Consumer Credit Agreement) from a Debt Collection Agency on the basis that if they do not provide the required legal documentation then the debt becomes unenforceable and does not have to be repaid.

This would appear to be the primary strategy that these "shark" type organisations are working with aswell.

I'm sorry but I disagree with this. It is a well known and long established fact that if a lender fails to comply with a CCA request then the debt becomes unenforceable for the duration of the breach only.

Unlike the CAB, however, these shark companies are claiming to be dealing with 'loopholes' in the CCA resulting from 'changes' in legislation in April 2007. This is pure drivel. The only significance of April 2007 is that changes within the CCA 2006 took effect from then in that credit agreements would no longer become automatically unenforceable in the event of a significant breach in existing legislation.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING has changed in respect of agreements dated prior to 2007, yet companies are claiming that 'due to changes to Consumer Credit Laws' the majority of agreements before April 2007 are unenforceable. They will waste everyone's time by trying to find loopholes based on the form and content requirements of credit agreements, the detail of which are regularly posted on the CAG forums.

Thankfully the courts appear to be wising up to them and it is therefore only left for us to warn people against throwing their money away with these companies before they disappear as quickly as they arrived.

DirectDebacle

NickX wrote: »

There is nothing illegal or unlawful about doing this, but before Proliant gets worked up with me,(:rotfl: ) the moral implications of doing this is something that the individual concerned will have to decide for themselves.

Good post, thanks. I understand now. Not an out and out con but a nicely marketed and packaged way of getting you to pay for something that should be available for free. Which may or may not work. Not unlike NHS Dental treatment (don't get me started lol).

NickX

~Brock~ wrote: »

I'm sorry but I disagree with this. It is a well known and long established fact that if a lender fails to comply with a CCA request then the debt becomes unenforceable for the duration of the breach only.

Well if you request the CCA and the creditor can locate it, then there is no reason why they will not comply with the request because it enforces the debt with more strength.

If they do not send it, then the chances are that they cannot locate it. I think it is highly unlikely (especially if the debt has been passed on to a DCA) that they will somehow magic a CCA sometime in the future thereby closing the breach.

It is a fact that no CCA means the debt is unenforceable.

However, it is not unknown for the DCA's to miraculously produce CCA's of dubious origin. Its alwayd adviseable NOT to provide any DCA with a copy of your signature.

~Brock~

NickX wrote: »

It is a fact that no CCA means the debt is unenforceable.

This is not in dispute.

The problem occurs when these 'debt buster' companies claim that the majority of pre-2007 credit agreements are unenforceable. That is clearly aimed at trying to give desperate people the impression that they have got a good chance of success.

Why do you think that the MoJ and the OFT saw fit to issue a joint warning over these activities.

NickX

~Brock~ wrote: »

The problem occurs when these 'debt buster' companies claim that the majority of pre-2007 credit agreements are unenforceable. That is clearly aimed at trying to give desperate people the impression that they have got a good chance of success.

Why do you think that the MoJ and the OFT saw fit to issue a joint warning over these activities.

I am in agreement with you on this and would recommend that these companies are given a wide berth. As I said previously, "why pay someone a vast amount of money to exercise a legal right that you can do yourself with a bit of knowledge and research".

I would advise anyone thinking of going down this route that they would be better to speak to CAB (Citizen's Advice Bureau).

~Brock~

NickX wrote: »

I am in agreement with you on this and would recommend that these companies are given a wide berth. As I said previously, "why pay someone a vast amount of money to exercise a legal right that you can do yourself with a bit of knowledge and research".

I would advise anyone thinking of going down this route that they would be better to speak to CAB (Citizen's Advice Bureau).

I completely agree.

(Forum mods please note - two people have managed to agree on something in this thread!!!!!) :T:rotfl::beer::j

skintandscared_2

What I still can't get a definitive answer on is, even if the DCA or creditor can't locate the CCA and the debt becomes unenforceable, what happens to it?? It isn't "wiped" as these scammers claim. It just sits there with a massive default on your credit file, yes? So surely, as long as it's not discharged, you will have a non-existent credit rating and no chance of clearing it?

~Brock~

skintandscared wrote: »

What I still can't get a definitive answer on is, even if the DCA or creditor can't locate the CCA and the debt becomes unenforceable, what happens to it?? It isn't "wiped" as these scammers claim. It just sits there with a massive default on your credit file, yes? So surely, as long as it's not discharged, you will have a non-existent credit rating and no chance of clearing it?

Firstly, just because a lender cannot locate an agreement (which I am sure would be a very small % of cases), a judge may still find against the debtor by taking the view that there was clearly an agreement in place. Let's say, for example, that a fire at the lenders offices destroyed all their agreements. Do we seriously expect a court to rule that none of their customers have to honour their agreements anymore?

Secondly, unenforceable does not mean that the debt isn't still owed. It just means that the lender cannot use the courts to enforce the terms of the agreement. It also does not mean that the debtor can claim that the loan or credit card never existed.

In some situations a lender may well write the debt off, as they would deem it uneconomical to pursue the debt without the ability to use the courts. This would be in situations where the customer is clearly sticking two fingers up at them. This would no doubt be proclaimed by these shark companies as a 'victory'. Maybe so, but a dubious one at best and in reality a very very small percentage of the cases they are charging an up front fee to process.

NickX

skintandscared wrote: »

What I still can't get a definitive answer on is, even if the DCA or creditor can't locate the CCA and the debt becomes unenforceable, what happens to it?? It isn't "wiped" as these scammers claim. It just sits there with a massive default on your credit file, yes? So surely, as long as it's not discharged, you will have a non-existent credit rating and no chance of clearing it?

No, if no CCA is produced, then any defaults on your credit file can be removed. A creditor has no right to default your credit file if they cannot evidence the debt.

The same would apply to a "statute barred" debt because any default would be 6 years old and should no longer appear on your credit file.

NickX

~Brock~ wrote: »

Firstly, just because a lender cannot locate an agreement (which I am sure would be a very small % of cases), a judge may still find against the debtor by taking the view that there was clearly an agreement in place. Let's say, for example, that a fire at the lenders offices destroyed all their agreements. Do we seriously expect a court to rule that none of their customers have to honour their agreements anymore?

We may have agreed before, but I don't agree with you here.

No CCA = No evidence of the debt.

Without the CCA the debt does not exist legally.

If you have a scan through the DFW (Debt Free Wannabee) board, you may be surprised to see just how many cases there are where the creditor cannot supply a valid CCA. They have usually sold the debt on to a DCA by this point, but it is happening all the time.