running power into the loft

adaze

madjay wrote: »

See post 6

madjay wrote: »

You are only allowed to change lighting and power accessories like for like or different manufacturer and replace damaged cables. you are not allow to add to lighting or power circuits. quote]

Where explicitly does it say this, despite searching I cannot find anything that backs this up. I appreciate that changing sockets is allowed I was just being facetious!

If you can change a damaged cable why on earth (no pun intended ) could you not also add a spur. I'm quite willing to accept what you are saying as long as you can point me in the direction of a statement to that effect from a reliable source.

latecomer

madjay wrote: »

This regs have been around for a hell of a long time before it was made law. And yes most houses I have see are death traps because people think they know electrics.

I am not scaremongering I was just advising that if you want to play about with electrics you should know what you are getting in to.

By the why you can not be registered to be BS7671.

You have to be competent to BS7671 AKA qualfied spark

It is that clear cut if you add to any electrical circuit you have have it Tested and inspected by a BS7671 competent person. A DIYer will not have the equipment or knowledge to carry this out.

The only debate is by DIYers who think they Know it all and have been stopped but think there is a loop hole.

Your whole attitude to DIY work is that we are "playing with electrics". And when you start patronising people by saying its past your bedtime it just makes you look childish.

If the law was so clear cut then there would not be any debate. Are the IET a recognised body who's views on the matter can be trusted?

madjay

Part P Document Section O, clause 0.8 a ii states "the work can be carry out by a DIYer but has to been inspected and tested by a BS7671 competent person and a Minor Electrical Works Certificate issued"

Espresso this is what part P state about DIYers

What you have quote is a line off a Web page that forms no part off IEE regs or the Part P document:

your a fast reader if you read both documents in 40 Mimute....

adaze

Which edition? Looking at the 2006 edition I can't see a section 0.8, BUT in 0.7b

It is not necessary to give prior notification of proposals to carry out electrical installation work to building control bodies in the following circumstances:

a. The proposed installation work is undertaken by a person registered with an electrical certification scheme prescribed in regulations (see schedule 2A of the Regulations). In these cases the person is responsible for ensuring compliance with BS 7671:2001 or an equivalent standard and all relevant building regulations requirements. A full list of schemes with contact details is given in Appendix E.

OR

b. The proposed electrical installation work is non -notifable work of the type described in Table 1 and does not include the provision of a new circuit (see schedule 2B of the Regulations)

madjay

It is clear adaze, latecommer and espresso you have you views that you believe are correct, but unless you are going to read the complete upto date verisions of IEE Wiring Regulations 17th Edition and the Part P document we are going to differ and not come to agreement on this subject. So I suggest you carry on doing what you believe is right because in any case it is only going to really going to effect you when you go to sell your house, and in the present climate I do not think any of us are going to be doing that in the near future.

adaze

pfft! Stop copping out of backing up what you say is correct. We have, at least, backed up ourselves up with quotes from reputable sources. I have no problem with the fact we disagree, but how can we respect your answers if you cannot validate them

I'm not going to read the whole of the latest edition of the regs, if this is something you know so well surely you can point us to the relevant sections. I do not want to be doing something which could cause problems at a later date, but in my understanding, adding to an existing lighting circuit is not going to cause a problem as it is stated in numerous documents that it is not notifiable and does not need to be completed or tested by a competent person (not saying I'm not competent in what I do , just using Part P's words and therefore their description of a competent person, i.e. not a DIYer )

madjay

"not notifiable" means in this acase that you do not have to notify the planning office that you are carrying out changes to the Electrical Installation. It does not mean you do not have to test it.

Part P Section O, clause 0.8 a ii states
"the work can be carry out by a DIYer but has to been inspected and tested by a BS7671 competent person and a Minor Electrical Works Certificate issued"

Failure to comply with the Building Regulations is a criminal offence and local authorities have the power to require the removal or alteration of work that does not comply with the requirements

You see unless you read both documents how the hell do you know you comply.

Its not copping out..... I know I am not breaking the law because I am a Qualified Electrician and I Know what I am allow to carry out. You have got bits of information form different web sites to suit your views ... do you realiy know if you are breaking the law or not?

espresso

Q11: How will Part P apply to DIY work?

Part P will apply to all electrical work in dwellings, whether carried out by professionals or DIYers.
Some DIY work will require the submission of a building notice to the local authority and the payment of a building control fee.
Some minor electrical work will not be notifiable, as explained above. Examples include adding a lighting or power point to an existing circuit, adding a spur to an existing circuit or replacing a light fitting.

madjay

As I keep saying Part P Section O, clause 0.8 a ii states

"the work can be carry out by a DIYer but has to been inspected and tested by a BS7671 competent person and a Minor Electrical Works Certificate issued

You still need a Cert and no electrician is going to do paper work for a installation that is not his

I suggest you read the documents and not put bits of the web site?

adaze

OK, the latest version of Part P, as far as I can find, is HERE and does not contain the clause you are referring too

See question 5 from this Part P guidance document HERE

Q. I only carry out minor electrical work in dwellings, e.g. repairs and
replacements, installing extra points. Do I need to be Part P certified?
A. No - provided you keep within the scope of what constitutes non-notifiable
work, as stated in Approved Document P, which is very limiting. However, all
minor work should comply with BS 7671 and be certificated by the issue of a
Minor Works Certificate to the householder or person ordering the work.

Surely this is ONLY for electricians such as your self not DIYers

Also Q8 from the same document

Q. Is it true that BS 7671 will be mandatory under Part P?
A. No. BS 7671 requirements are non-statutory and will remain so. Having said
that, however, meeting the fundamental principles for safety given in BS 7671
will be an appropriate means to achieve compliance with Part P requirements.

Also see THIS document from the ODPM regarding "New rules for electrical safety in the home"

Who is going to do the work === Me, a friend or relative === Do I need to tell building control about the Work [In this case NO] === Go ahead with the work You do not need to contact your local authority's Building Control Department

All of these documents are from the Part P website endorsed by these guys....



I cannot believe that the Government and the ECA would tell consumers that they can add extra points or lights to circuit when they cannot.