DVLA Failure to Tax Fine

blue_haddock

Last year i sold my car to a guy from Ireland, he took the car back over there the day i sold it and i filled out the export section of the V5 and sent it off to the DVLA..

A few months back i received a letter saying i hadn't taxed the vehicle and they wanted me to pay and £80 fine. I wrote back explaining that i was no longer the keeper and that i was now in Ireland so not liable for UK road tax. I heard nothing back so presumed everything was OK.

I have now received a letter from Philips Debt recovery demanding payment. Having spoken to them they say i should speak to DVLA. I have spoken to the DVLA and they say that i am still the registered keeper and they have not received any correspondence from myself.

What is the best plan of attack here? i am going to write to them yet again (and send it recorded this time) but what shall i say? i'm sure they will just write back saying tough luck pay up!

TiTheRev

I had a similar thing with a guy who bought an old car off me, and then raced it around Brighton until it popped and then left it on the road! I recieved a letter saying that I was going to be charged with blocking a highway and leaving the scene of an accident etc... but fortunately had kept the address of the guy who bought it off me (in the same town as me!) and furnished them with his address to pester. Heard nothing more, but have seen the guy since so he's not doing time for it!

If you can drag out any contact details, phone number/email/letters between you and the guy that you sold the car too, that may help them track him down so he can confirm the sale.

Conor_3

On the V5, it states that if you don't receive confirmation after so many days of change of ownership/export (28 I think) to contact them. Basically it's either got lost in the post or in the system. You should have had a confirmation letter from DVLA 3-4 weeks after posting it. You didn't get one and you didn't contact them so as far as they're concerned, you've not notified them or taxed it so they've sent the fine.

From personal experience, they're a law unto themselves and it's "guilty and you can't prove your innocence".

Wig

What to do?

* Write to DVLA and ask them to remove your interest in the vehicle which is currently recording you as the keeper. & Covering letter to explain you sold it ages ago.


* Regarding the debt recovery, ignore them, they can only recover the debt if the DVLA have taken you to court and won the case, and only then if you were aware of the court proceedings before the case was heard. If you did not know of the case then you will have to apply to the court for the judgement to be set aside. If there was no such case, ignore the debt recovery co.


Also they can only recover the debt (sanctioned by the court - as above) if you are living in the UK AFAIK IANAL

The debt if issued by the court will last for 6 years from the date of the initial fine.

Finally, If they take you to court, or did take you to court without your knowledge, they will have NO CHANCE of winning their case if you mention your article 6 Human Rights Act, right to a public judicial review enacted by law to determine if you did or did not commit a section 33 (VERA 1994) offence with the vehicle. As the DVLA do not provide or allow any judicial review they cannot enforce any of their 'fines' - which are really debts.

IMHO IANAL AFAIK TINLA

j69ant

As stated above, the DVLA are a law to them selves. I am currently disputing a fine.

I sent a SORN decleration 3 weeks late. This wasnt the issue - The issue was they said they never received the declerartion.

I wrote a letter, with a new sorn decleration explaining it was sent. I rang the DLVA after a month and was told they hadnt received any letter or appeal from me.

I sent a second SORN form and another letter. I then got a decleration of SORN accepted from the first SORN form, but no reply to the letter.

I then received a second "decleration of SORN accepted" form, but no reply to the letter.

I wrote to the DLVA again, where i finally got a short reply saying that they had recieved no previous letters from me ( although they obviously processed the SORN forms !!!!! ) and that the fine still stands.

I have replied again asking where my first two letters have gone ( plus my original decleration ) - They replied, ignoring my question but saying the reason i am now being fined is becuase my decleration was late... I know for a fact there is a grace period of about 4-6 weeks before they issue the fine, as i tried to declare a car SORN, when i wasnt the registered keeper ( in companies name ) . The DVLA refused to declare SORN. I rang up to discuss my options and was told i would be fine as long as it taxed it within 4 weeks..

I am awaiting their reply, but my advise is to fight this. Look though this site and various others. Numerous people get the fines over turned, others dont. The inconsistency is crazy - It must depend on the mood of whoever receives your appeal letter.

Regards

Anthony

TiTheRev

Wig wrote: »

IMHO IANAL AFAIK TINLA

Keh???

IMHO = In my humble opinion
IANAL = I am not a liar???
AFAIK = As far as I know?
TINLA = There is nothing like applesauce?!

They need to create an abbreviations dictionary as well as text language verison :rolleyes:

Wig

j69ant wrote: »

I know for a fact there is a grace period of about 4-6 weeks before they issue the fine, as i tried to declare a car SORN, when i wasnt the registered keeper ( in companies name ) . The DVLA refused to declare SORN. I rang up to discuss my options and was told i would be fine as long as it taxed it within 4 weeks..

If you tax a car within the 1st month of expiry (with the new tax disc including that first month), then you won't recieve a charge - because the tax is dated from the 1st of the month and there is no break in cover. That's what they meant by 4 weeks. You can't be late into the second month so your idea of 4 - 6 weeks is wrong. Upto 4 weeks is correct. But it is slightly more complicated when you are declaring SORN late.

With your current problem how late were you to SORN the car?
Your tax expired the end of which month?
You declared SORN starting from what date?
You sent in the declaration on what date?

Wig

TiTheRev wrote: »

Keh???

IMHO = In my humble opinion
IANAL = I am not a liar???
AFAIK = As far as I know?
TINLA = There is nothing like applesauce?!

If you ever see one you don't know just put it in google search. for more specific results if that fails, put it into google along with the word accronym or accronyms.

j69ant

Wig,

The previous SORN expired at the end of May 08. I posted a SORN form on the 27th June 08 when i realised..So yes it was late.

My main issue with the DVLA..

1) They never replied to my first 2 letters, yet sent me a standard response letter accepting sorn ( i sent a letter and new SORN form ). Then after the 3rd letter, i go a response. The opening line says they are responding to my recent letter, and they had recieved no previous corrispondance from myself. This is total rubbish, by the fact they processed the SORN forms with the first 2 letters. If they received the 2 SORN forms, they must have received the letters. If they can lose 2 other letters, why not my decleration.
2) The inconcistency of the fines. If you scour the net, loads of people get let off, some dont. How can they make one rule for some and not others.

I have asked these questions twice now, yet the DVLA seem reluctant to answer them when they respond to my letters. I have written yet another response, so i will let you know the outcome.

Regards


Anthony

Wig

So you sent SORN on Jun 27th but you did not say what date you said the SORN applied from in your SORN form..... You should have written Jun 1st on the SORN form....... did you? Did you date the SORN form Jun 27th?

Had you telephoned them on Jun 27th to say "I SORNd my vehicle from Jun 1st and have not recieved a reply yet" Then they would not have known you were lying and they would have just SORNd the vehicle from Jun 1st and no problem would have occured.

Your problem was that either said SORN applies from Jun 27th thus there was 26 days no SORN / no Tax = fine

or you sent SORN form dated Jun 27th with SORN applying from Jun 1st but they did not process the form until July and in their eyes that's not good enough because they do only officially give 14 days grace. As a result when the review came on 1st July you were un taxed un-SORNd and you got an automatic fine.


In any event just ignore the fine fight them in court if it ever gets that far, which AIUI does not happen anymore now that the DVLA know they cannot win in court.

blue_haddock

Right well i'm just about to go and post my letter recorded delivery.

Have said that i am no longer the owner and the car is now over in Ireland and i have informed them of this twice already. Asked them to confirm i have no further interest in the vehicle and that the fine is no longer applicable.

Any idea how long it will be before i hear back from them?