NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

fivealive_2

BelfastGran wrote: »

Sorry I mean't a positive response from MLA's

Glad you clarified that one, thanks. I have had helpful replies from 2 PCI ministers that I emailed who spoke publicly on the issue and a nice reply from some-one in The Financial Times. Yesterday I emailed Paul Butler MLA and thought that I would impress him by writing the email in Irish but "de ones" at work tell me that not all Sinn Fein boyos are fluent in Irish so maybe he too will be looking for an on-line translator!!
:laugh:

expat68

fivealive wrote: »

Glad you clarified that one, thanks. I have had helpful replies from 2 PCI ministers that I emailed who spoke publicly on the issue and a nice reply from some-one in The Financial Times. Yesterday I emailed Paul Butler MLA and thought that I would impress him by writing the email in Irish but "de ones" at work tell me that not all Sinn Fein boyos are fluent in Irish so maybe he too will be looking for an on-line translator!!
:laugh:

that's just too confusing - a presbyterian writing in irish to a sinn fein boyo who needs some help to translate it back to english.

I have to say I am impressed by how mature sinn fein have been in discussing and supporting the PMS members. Ironic how Sinn Fein seem to be more supportive than PCI at this time for the presbyterian community. Times , they are a changing..............

sickasaparrot

LADY HERMON SUPPORTS PRESBYTERIAN SAVERS (a synopsis)

Lady Hermon has met with representatives from Shore St. Church, Donaghadee. Lady Hermon, as a Presbyterian herself was utterly dismayed and extremely angry as more and more details of the PMS fiasco unfolded.
She said hundreds of Presbyterians throughout N. Down trusted the PMS to invest their savings wisely and have been seriously let down by the Society.
Lady Hermon said she would take immediate action. As well as writing immediately to the FSA calling for a comprehensive and transparent investigation into PMS, she has also asked the local Trade and Investment minister Arlene Foster to respond to specific enquiries.
These include a request for the disclosure of any bonuses or salaries paid to the Directors of the society in the months immediately preceeding it going into administration.
Given the seriousness of this matter for thousands of Presbyterians she said she will be striving to work together with public representatives from other political parties, including DUP, to ensure we get the best outcome for savers.

fivealive_2

Mark789 wrote: »

Indeed! A slightly sarcastic attempt to encourage folks to post in English as I was getting bored with entering Irish into an online translator and getting Double Dutch back.
I entered "Is there any chance that we could keep posts in English so everybody can understand?" and translated to Korean, which I understand just as well as Irish - i.e. not at all, and got "
우리가영어로포스트를지킬수있었다그래서모두가이해할다는것을어떤기회있는가?"
the reverse translation is "The possibility we defending the post with English it is and so all it will understand wearing out there is a what kind of chance?", which is about as much use to me as the translations of the Irish that I got back.

Point taken and humbest apologies. I find it hard to resist any opportunity to remind people that the words Presbyterian and British are not synonymous. I normally manage to repress my Irishness to some extent but when I saw that some-one called "Amadan" was posting on this site I was fascinated as "Amadan" is the Irish for "fool". I wondered if I had discovered another closet Irish speaker within the PCI?!
:shocked:
Is mise le meas = Yours sincerely
Do chara dhilis = Your good friend
Go neiri an bothar leat = May the road rise to meet you = Good luck
Go mbeire muid beo ar an am seo aris = May we all be still alive at this time again = A kind of blessing/greeting
Tog a bog e = Stay cool
Dia dhuit = God be with you = Hello

Anyway Mark789 you had gone kinda quiet so I am glad to have forced you out of your silence. I shall try and behave myself from here on and act like a good wee Presbyterian!
:happylove

D.A.

goodbyepci wrote: »

[*]Or in secured loans for houses

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the definition of a mortgage, which PCI were not allowed to handle by law?

goodbyepci

D.A. wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the definition of a mortgage, which PCI were not allowed to handle by law?

I suppose it is, but no-one knew that at the time.
I took it to mean that there was some sort of security on the loan for the purchase of the house as in the PMS promotional leaflet, like a guarantor, or a valuation on another property, that sort of thing.

sickasaparrot

goodbyepci

I share your feelings about being lied to by PMS as I was told exactly the same as you. I was assured that they only lent to congregations and individuals and loans were secured against property - ( and my money was safe!)

With regard to mortgages - I have the Annual report and Accounts for years 2003 - 2008 and in every one, in the balance sheet under the heading "fixed assets" there is an amount for advances on mortgages.

Mortgages are also mentioned in the Chairman's report 2008.

expat68

just read the y/e 2008 accounts myself. I think there must be some pages missing as it doesnt mention buy to lets or development land anywhere in the whole report. I'm sure the directors of an ethical society didnt feel the need to tell you what they were actually doing with your money. Now the directors might say no-one asked but why would you ask if you thought it was being lent to churches and members as a cheaper source of credit than banks like they said.

Also seems that the director that got away was a solictor by profession according to the annual return though I am sure he couldnt possibly be the one that worked for the legal advisors to the administrator in a senior capacity until quite recently.

I should mention that the insolvency partner for L'estrange & brett who is working for adminstrator is rated very highly and I am sure he will do a very good job for PMS members.

Just seems odd that one director with legal knowledge resigned just as it was all becoming clear what was about to happen.

Nomad25

still here as part of the support team!!!!!

expat68

So loans for buy to let and land are outside mortgage definition scope according to FSA as far as I can unravel after a lot of research. But if PMS lent to anyone to buy a house which they intended to live in and took first legal charge i.e. security over the property that would be classed as a mortgage. According to administrators report on page 14 approx £11m was advanced against own homes so if PMS lent this to individuals (scheme rules required this) and took a charge over the property (which it would be standard to do) it would very much seem to meet FSA definition for a mortgage and PMS should have been FSA regulated.

See below for FSA extract

Which mortgages are affected?

Under legislation, firms need to consider whether they require FSA authorisation to carry out activities relating to regulated mortgage contracts. Not all loans secured on land are caught by the definition of regulated mortgage contract. In broad terms, a regulated mortgage

contract must meet the following conditions at the time it is entered into:

• the borrower must be an individual or a trustee;

• the lender must take a first legal charge over property in the UK; and

• at least 40% of the property must be occupied by the borrower or a member of their immediate family, or intended for their occupation.

So, the definition of mortgage does not cover the following:

• buy-to-let mortgages, (unless the tenant is a member of the borrower’s immediate family, or the borrower intends to occupy the property at some stage);

• second charge loans; and

• loans to companies (except in the case of trustees).

On the other hand, as well as loans for house purchase, where the security is a first charge over the borrower's residential property, the following loans potentially fall within the definition of ‘regulated mortgage contract’ and FSA regulation:

• lending for home improvements (including, for example, some in-store credit);

• lending for debt consolidation;

• business lending to sole traders and to partnerships in England and Wales;

• secured overdrafts and secured credit cards; and

• bridging loans.

So the definition of ‘regulated mortgage contract’ is wide in its scope.