NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

D.A.

crazymess wrote: »

What, if anything, has been done with the signed petitions from the churches?

Can Church House gather these and forward them on to Government and get a total tally of names on the online petition - under 6000 names registered to date - pretty miserable for a total congregation of circa 300,000 people!

Pedantic point - only a small fraction of that 300000 would attend regularly enough to have actually seen the printed petitions.

Also, and I hate to say it, a fraction may well feel that there's no reason why the Government should bail out the PMS.

seatzie

jon_groovy wrote: »

Can i just ask all lurkers to say a quick hello to say they agree with most of us

hello, and good luck

mackm

I have quite a bit on money in the PMS and like the rest of you stand to lose more than I can afford to.
HOWEVER I have to agree with D.A. as I am also sick of listening to those of you who for example say "not another penny to FWO".
Don't these people realise that in doing so the ones they are hurting most are not those in Church House, but the ordinary members of their own church - including the children in the Sunday School, the GB the BB etc and the old folk who depend on church clubs etc for companionship and fellowship.
Yes, complain as loud and widely as you can, but don't stop supporting your own church financially - they were not to blame for the present situation.

no_more_f.w.o

Ok D.A. you work for PCI and are now towing the party line…………..thanks a lot
Who got at you?

It was you who said on 14th Jan
“It was accountants and clergy who caused this sodding mess in the first place!”

For some reason you have decided to sow a nice little dose of negativity and smugness.

You say you have no money in the PMS, so why are you posting on here?
What gives you the right to admonish us for what you admit is justifiable anger?

How would you feel if you had potentially lost 40% of your hard earned savings, had all your future plans put on hold, then been patronised, had scriptures quoted, and now WWJD………………come on!
I bet you’d be furious.

What do you expect us to do to vent our frustration with PCI
Write to the moderator………………………….done (no reply)
Write to PMS secretary………………………….done (no reply)
Bring it up at session/committee………….. done (no result)

As to your point about FWO, it seems that money is extremely important to PCI, so important that they hate to part with it, and are now only able to loan money to those in severe financial hardship.
Pity we hadn’t known that all those years and thousands of pounds ago when we were tithing.
All those years of raising money in car boot sales, cake sales, craft fairs, all that time, all that effort, when there is a general investment fund of £43 million!
It’s obscene…………….wake up people!

The only effective way to make them take notice is to hit them in the pocket.

As you work for PCI maybe you would like to take up the invitation in post 1072 and answer some of the questions.
Another question while we are at it
do you know anything about the £43 million general investment fund?
Donald Watts says PCI has very little free money?

But if you are just coming on here to be self righteous and tell us what naughty boys and girls we are for criticising PCI and getting angry because our money was stolen.

Why don’t you just go away!


:eek:

Whatnow?_3

Well said FWO.

D.A.

To answer your points one by one.

no_more_f.w.o wrote: »

Ok D.A. you work for PCI

No, I don't; I am a member of PCI like the rest of you and have other connections, but I do not "work for" PCI. And how dare you presume that I do just because I posted constructive criticism.

It was you who said on 14th Jan: “It was accountants and clergy who caused this sodding mess in the first place!”

And your point is??? I stand by this comment; the directors of PMS (being, in the main, accountants and clergy) caused much of this mess themselves.

For some reason you have decided to sow a nice little dose of negativity and smugness.

No, I decided to point out that the attitude of certain posters, whilst understandable, was maybe counter-productive.

You say you have no money in the PMS, so why are you posting on here?

Because it is an open forum, not exclusively for PMS investors; also, I know people who *do* have money in the PMS.

What gives you the right to admonish us for what you admit is justifiable anger?

Admonish, no. Just suggesting that you focus your anger in order to achieve results.

How would you feel if you had potentially lost 40% of your hard earned savings, had all your future plans put on hold, then been patronised, had scriptures quoted, and now WWJD………………come on!

I would feel the same as you do. Would I have a go at those who would make a post similar to mine? Yes, probably, but then I would sit down and read it in detail to see if there were actually any valid points being made in it.

I bet you’d be furious.

Yes, and I understand why you are.

What do you expect us to do to vent our frustration with PCI
Write to the moderator………………………….done (no reply)
Write to PMS secretary………………………….done (no reply)
Bring it up at session/committee………….. done (no result)

So keep pushing them until they do reply! Don't give up until you get the answers which you deserve.

As to your point about FWO, it seems that money is extremely important to PCI, so important that they hate to part with it, and are now only able to loan money to those in severe financial hardship.

This is central funds which you are talking about. FWO is (mostly) used at congregational level. They are two completely different things.

Pity we hadn’t known that all those years and thousands of pounds ago when we were tithing.
All those years of raising money in car boot sales, cake sales, craft fairs, all that time, all that effort, when there is a general investment fund of £43 million!

Do I agree with you? Yes, I do.

The only effective way to make them take notice is to hit them in the pocket.

In your opinion. In my opinion, the way to make them take notice is to keep digging until you get to the truth, then hold those accountable who need to be held accountable.

As you work for PCI maybe you would like to take up the invitation in post 1072 and answer some of the questions.

I can't. As previously stated, I don't work for PCI, and have no more knowledge of the workings of Church House than you do.

Another question while we are at it do you know anything about the £43 million general investment fund?

See above. I have no way of knowing anything about it.

Donald Watts says PCI has very little free money?

Presumably "very little money which at this point can legally be freed up to be used for a purpose other than that for which it was given".

But if you are just coming on here to be self righteous and tell us what naughty boys and girls we are for criticising PCI and getting angry because our money was stolen.

I hate to say this, but your money was not stolen. You made a decision to invest, no-one forced you to. Were you badly/wrongly advised by others? Probably. Was the PMS run how it should have been? Probably not, but that will come out in the wash. I apologise that I sound self-righteous by saying that, but 'stolen' is a very emotive word.

Why don’t you just go away!

OK. Good luck with your campaign.

expat68

Not sure in fighting will solve too much - we live ina democracy and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I think we can all agree that there is a difference between your local reverend doing his best for the local community and those who are in charge of the PCI at Church House i.e. the moderator, the clerk, deputy clerk and probably even the presbytery clerks as well. The latter are the people who set the direction of overall church policy and their response to date has been legally driven rather than pastoral. The hierarchy at church house seem to be paralysed by fear of making a legal mistake rather than setting a tone from the top for assisting their "members" and doing something beyond what politicians and indivduals are doing themselves.

The initial missives from the leadership at the PCI were shameful - a blatant disowning of the situation and getiing the legal disclaimers in with a bit of pastoral care mentioned as an afterthought. This was not the response people expected from their church leadership and the hurt will last for years and maybe forever, something has been lost by the PCI that may never be regained.

So dont shout at each other , document your thoughts and send it to the moderator, clerk or whoever.

fivealive_2

hilaryconn wrote: »

HI,I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE THREAD FOR AGES AND HAVE FOUND COMFORT IN MANY POSTS AS WELL AS SURPRISINGLY SOME MIRTH. I, MANY TIMES FELT DRAWN TO VOICE MY THOUGHTS BUT THE REGULARS SAY IT ALL SO MUCH MORE SUCCINTLY. PLEASE KEEP POSTING AS YOU REALLY ARE THE ONLY SUPPORT AVAILABLE TO US IN THIS OUR HOUR OF NEED.

WELCOME Hilary:hello:

Nomad25

Have any of you PMS savers contacted the CAB or taken legal advice?

Anyone - anything to say??

fivealive_2

D.A. wrote: »

To answer your points one by one.

Why don’t you just go away!

OK. Good luck with your campaign.

Please don't go. This thread is for everyone with a direct/indirect interest in the PMS.
D.A. you are representing some people's views, just as NoMoreF.W.O. represents some people's views. This should be a "safe" place for people to ventilate and there is room for us all.
:smileyhea