NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

Nomad25

innocment bystander on PCI in all this?

To answer your question:

:rotfl: Moi.......innoccent!

However to be serious, in deference to keeping the thread open, have tried to chose my words carefully, a bit lengthy I'm afraid:

Initially I empathised [had a scare of my own with ICESAVE] with all the savers, but didn't really understand there was no 50K safety net and it puzzled me. Subsequently, as every one started to post, I read all the links and began to understand the ins and outs [hence some of my direct questions] and I was astounded at the complete lack of financial control exercised over and by PMS.

I feel many of the older PMS savers are of the same ilk as my own mother who is quite elderly and very independent.

[To explain: She has a small savings pot, totally trusts and follows the advice of those she regards as 'her betters'. I bite my MSE lip and do not interfere. She is of an age where she does not want to move her money around - she keeps it in place as advised, knowing it is secure, safe and low risk + if she needs it, emergency money. No worries.]

Therefore I can identify with and understand their unquestioning faith in the 'their betters' .. the church and financial execs at Society, and their reluctance to challenge and at this point I got indignant, feeling PCI had taken advantage of senior citizens.

Information and details of more plights from 'money saved for university fees to house deposits', made me very angry.

It appears that by some consensus of authority PCI has been duplicitious and deceitful in this matter, since last year. Sadly, some of its own ministers appear to have also been duped. They have and are still taking advantage of the good faith of individuals from their congregations. To spout verses and righteous pap, at this time is insulting and hurtful to those good folk/followers of the church. PCI should be ashamed at hiding behind the legal gobbledegook of "separate institutions" and should step forward and be seen to actively initiate a solution. Their current stance does them no credit.

No implementation of safety measures and subsequent firefighting tactics by DENI is shameful and whilst this mess cannot be attributed to them, they should be publically chastised. As NI was allowed to 'paddle its own canoe' with PMS left to operate virtually unregulated, no culpability can be directed to FSCS/HMG. PCI should concentrate their efforts on facilitating a deal with them

I sincerely hope if at some point PMS, its directors, executives et al can be legally nobbled, it is done with a vengeance.

I have edited this diatribe down as much as I can.

john2009

crazymess wrote: »

Maybe Mills Selig in Arthur Street, Belfast might be able to shed some light!!!!!!

Anyone dealt with them before???????

Hi folks,

I have made some enquiries. Carson McDowell were recommended. Have a look at their website for further details.

Hope this helps.

Nomad25

I'm not deserting the thread, but feel so frustrated at the injustice of it all and that quite frankly, I can't do or think of anything yet to put it right or to help.

no_more_f.w.o

People
I haven’t posted much here, but I have been doing a LOT of thinking, and I am now extremely angry.

If you are of a nervous disposition or a dedicated committed lifelong PCI member, please do not read on because you WILL be offended for sure!

PMS people you have to understand


PCI is not going to bail us out this situation until they are absolutely forced to!


Just look at what was said at the General Board meeting.
Donald Watts was still emphasising that the PMS is legally separate from the church
Nothing has changed in 4 months!

They are now laying the saccharine and platitudes on with a shovel as they have realised how annoyed people were by the initial interviews with Donald Watts.

But nothing else has changed!

All they have done is write letters, speak to Government, have meetings, sign the petition and patronise us.
The hardship fund is pathetic, a maximum of a measly £1000 in cases of acute need.
They now claim that few have taken it up.
Is that surprising when people have to go begging to their minister for money to pay bills?

I am so thankful that I was not bought up as a Presbyterian, so have never been brainwashed into the whole Presbyterian mind set.
But I am certain sure of the following:

• I do not need prayerful support, I can do my own praying thank you
• I do not need scriptures quoted at me, I have Holy Spirit led personal scriptures which are a great comfort to me at this time.
• I do not need someone to “stand alongside me”, I have Jesus :A

But

I do need my money back!

A PCI clergyman on the radio said that this has happened for a reason, and maybe there will be a revival afterwards?
It has happened for a reason alright, to expose the true nature of Irish Presbyterian!
Hang your heads in shame all you in Church House, remember you are to care for widows and orphans, not make them come begging for money to pay their bills.
Church House, you tormented pensioners without internet access, with 3 months of anxiety while you in your own words thought it best to “say little”

I really don’t want to upset or offend those people reading this who are lifelong Presbyterians, and who have got comfort from the church in this situation.
But I think you really have to face up to the fact that Church House is not going to help us until they are dragged kicking and screaming into the courts.
In the Sunday Times yesterday John Burns wrote that a minister in Carrickfergus is ministering to people by telling the in the words of Habbakuk, to “rejoice and be glad” even if you have lost everything financially!

Do the PCI not realise that they have now become a target of ridicule and scorn as journalists mock their patronising scripture quotes and highlight their total lack of practical support for the pensioners affected by this debacle?
This piece was entitled “Presbyterian savers offer prayers of thanks for nothing”

That says it all.


My solution
I have stopped paying freewill offering and stopped attending church.
Can I suggest that this is the only effective way to make the PCI face up to their responsibilities.
Even if you love attending church and it is a comfort at this awful time, can I suggest that people STOP PAYING FWO!
There are so many genuine practical ministries out there in the mission field who would be so grateful for your "tithes and offerings"

And never forget that the whole church is riddled with freemasons
And they have their own agenda.

(Now that should put the cat among the pigeons!)


:eek:

yamis21

I contacted my local minister who wasn't aware of hardship fund. I phoned Sec of PMS and he told me they were having difficulty setting up a bank account to enable a hardship fund to be established this was 2 weeks ago. He did say he would phone me back, you won't be surprised to find i'm still waiting!!!! My local minister phoned me back and told me there was no hardship fund in place but that the local church had money which could be lent in cases of severe hardship.

Nomad25

Thank you yamis21 and welcome to this non-denominational thread. Your post -oh dear God, this really is the pits!

no_more_f.w.o

yamis21 wrote: »

I contacted my local minister who wasn't aware of hardship fund. I phoned Sec of PMS and he told me they were having difficulty setting up a bank account to enable a hardship fund to be established this was 2 weeks ago. He did say he would phone me back, you won't be surprised to find i'm still waiting!!!! My local minister phoned me back and told me there was no hardship fund in place but that the local church had money which could be lent in cases of severe hardship.

So in effect there is no hardship fund!
It's worse than I thought.

In cases of severe hardship the local church will LEND you some money!!

I wonder how much we have all paid into freewill offering, building funds and all the other demands for money over the years?

Yet the church can now generously LEND us some money

I rest my case m'lud

no_more_f.w.o

In the General Board report item 14
It is stated that
"The Moderator's Advisory Committee also recognises that in the present financial climate there will be Presbyterians in need who are not shareholders in the Presbyterian Mutual Society"

I wonder what would happen if you were made redundant (could easily happen at the moment), had mortgage payments you couldn't make, so you went to the minister for financial help on the basis of the statement above?

Would they LEND you some money do you think?

:mad:

freddiemae

Again as a bystander I feel so sorry for you. Its bad enough losing your savings as I know only too well but this hurt goes deeper. Its as if the ground beneath your feet has suddenly turned to quicksands. You trusted your church - your minister- and the PMS and you have been let down. Your past sacrifices have been disregarded and now the hierarchy want to sweep you under the carpet.

There is no easy answer to this hurt which will probably never completely heal. I fear you might find it difficult to find a big enough group to put their heads above the parapet and sue the Church. There have been 54,000 views of this thread but less than a hundred posters. The silent majority will wait and see if you can do something for them and if not will suffer in silence. Some will die of a broken heart at the injustice of it all.

Its as if the church lent you an umbrella in the sunshine and took it back when it was raining. I wish you well and if I can find anything to help I will post it.

hilaryconn

Can i just ask all lurkers to say a quick hello to say they agree with most of us .
HI,I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE THREAD FOR AGES AND HAVE FOUND COMFORT IN MANY POSTS AS WELL AS SURPRISINGLY SOME MIRTH. I, MANY TIMES FELT DRAWN TO VOICE MY THOUGHTS BUT THE REGULARS SAY IT ALL SO MUCH MORE SUCCINTLY. PLEASE KEEP POSTING AS YOU REALLY ARE THE ONLY SUPPORT AVAILABLE TO US IN THIS OUR HOUR OF NEED.