NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

PMSSaver

BBC Northern Ireland

The First Minister Peter Robinson has said he and Martin McGuinness have agreed how to resolve the crisis facing Presbyterian Mutual Society savers.
It is understood that the proposal would result in everyone getting their money back over a period of time.
Mr Robinson said it was now up to the Treasury to accept the proposals, but believes they can resolve the crisis.
"The next step is the treasury's and I hope they will be able to give their consent to it," he said.
Earlier in March, a proposed five-year extension to running the collapsed society in administration was cut to 12 months.
Lawyers for administrator Arthur Boyd told the High Court their client was anxious to avoid needless expenses or delays.
They amended his plans amid concerns that some elderly people may not live long enough to enjoy their investments if a long-term extension was granted.
He can apply for a further extension if it is in the interest of creditors.
Nearly 10,000 Presbyterians lost access to their savings when it went into administration in November 2008.
The High Court has already ruled that shareholders with less than £20,000 in the society cannot receive interim payments from a £20m pot of assets realised.
Mr Justice Deeny's decision last month was taken on the basis that they cannot be classed as creditors.

goodbyepci

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0329/breaking52.htm?via=latest

D.A.

Just wait until the news gets out that members of congregations are going to have to stump up most of PCI's contribution...

brick

D.A. wrote: »

Just wait until the news gets out that members of congregations are going to have to stump up most of PCI's contribution...

Could you elaborate?

goodbyepci

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/presbyterian-savers-may-get-most-of-their-money-14747328.html

ballyblack

NEWS LETTER ANALYSIS:



Published Date:
30 March 2010
By Sam McBride

PMS savers have no need of fresh false hope and it will be difficult for them to assess the rescue proposal put forward yesterday until it is published.
At present it appears that only the DUP and Sinn Fein, who have been pursuing the issue on behalf of the Executive, are aware of the detail of what is being suggested could end the 10,000 savers' 18 months of quiet distress.

But much of the proposal's broad outline has already seeped out.
Seemingly, the DUP-Sinn Fein plan would be a three-pronged rescue package funded by the Treasury, Northern Ireland Executive and Church.

A loan from the Treasury would be used to pay the roughly £200 million owed to 'creditors' – those who have more than £20,000 invested and who legally must be paid in full before smaller savers can receive anything.

That loan could eventually be paid back when the PMS's property portfolio is sold off in future years as the society is wound down.
The Church – and possibly the Executive – would also contribute to a 'hardship fund' which would assist those savers with up to £20,000 invested.

Small savers would not receive all of their money at once and it is not clear whether they will ever receive all of their savings.

Although it has not yet been agreed, the Church's contribution could be as little as £3-4m of the total sum but even that figure, it is understood, would have to raised by special collections in churches as the denomination has little liquid assets.

It is unclear whether the Church could use funds which it does have access to, as most of that cash has been given it for a specific purpose.

What does seem clear is that the possibility of a bank taking over the PMS has been all but ruled out, leaving the Government as the savers' only hope.

Administrator Arthur Boyd first attempted to interest banks in the PMS when he was brought in 18 months ago.

Recently, the Government again encouraged banks, one of which was the bailed-out Ulster Bank, to examine the society.

But it is understood that the bankers who examined the PMS's books balked at getting involved.

Politically, there will inevitably be suspicion as to the timing of the rescue package being considered, given that a general election is now just weeks away.

However, there is genuine urgency in finding a solution given that the looming election could mean a change of Government.

There is also uncertainty as to whether the period of 'purdah' – whereby Government cannot undertake certain actions once an election has been called – will delay any rescue package.

Last week in the House of Commons Tory Shadow Secretary of State Owen Paterson angrily lambasted Secretary of State Shaun Woodward over his handling of the affair.

However, the Tories have not spelt out how they would address the crisis.

As Ulster Unionist leader Sir Reg Empey noted in his speech to the UUP AGM on Saturday, is the fact that PMS savers are dying off, in some cases distressed as to whether the money they had saved for their own funerals will be available to them.

After 18 months of despair, many of those savers and their families feel angry and betrayed by both Church and State.

Peter Robinson yesterday made the fair point that the Executive was living up to its responsibilities by stepping in to help the savers.

However, when it emerges, the rescue plan put forward yesterday will have to possess considerable merit indeed to satisfy the thousands of Presbyterian savers who have felt abandoned for more than a year and a half by both their preachers and their politicians.

freddiemae

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Why-is-this-just-an.6189432.jp

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/We-want-every-penny-returned.6189742.jp

goodbyepci

http://www.derryjournal.com/hamills-beat/Church-and-state-both-face.6190143.jp

Excap123

jon_groovy wrote: »

Carsons church has 1 million pounds in the pms, other churches have vast sums. That is sinful when pms members are litterly starving and freezing due to lack of money.

I suppose under this plan of the goverments that Rev Carson and other churches will get their money back quite quick as they are creditors. Then they could help others. I have a relative who is a small saver but I don't understand who will run this hardship sceme, the government or the church. How would we apply and would it be means tested. Should it be open to creditors - after all they will get most of their money back quicker and could wait for their shareholdings to be paid off. Wouldn't that help those who have under twenty thousand?

Grrrandad

Lester_F wrote: »

Depressing listening. On the one hand, some are holding out for a commercial solution, others for a government bail out. We are almost 18 months into administration and neither has happened.

Two of Silent Witness's clients were referred to. A charitable trust we all know as Howie Christian Charitable Trust and an individual who had placed compensation money in the PMS.

On the subject of Silent Witness; still no response on my pro bono question. The position as I understand it is that Silent Witness does pro bono work for himself. "For he's a jolly good fellow, for he's a jolly good fellow, for he's a jolly good fellow and so says Don ......"

I understood at the outset that the main purpose of this site was to advise, inform and generally support all those who were caught up in the PMS downfall - for whatever reason, Lester F seems to be more concerned with 'baiting' and having a go at Silent Witness ( I notice that there are no messages of Thanks after this most recent post).

I am neither a legal boffin or well educated in legal matters, but it would appear to me that the recent court ruling, that savers with under £20,000 would not benefit from the £20 million carve up, seems to have focussed the First/Deputy First Ministers on those very savers much more than would have been the case before - in that sense a result of sorts surely??

We still do not know the final details but at least it gives us a glimmer of hope - as Lester F seems to know the identity of SW could I suggest that he has the courage of his convictions and makes direct contact with him in relation to answers he so desperately seeks.