NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

Lester_F

Grrrandad wrote: »

It is not my intention to become entangled in something which I feel is becoming a personal vendetta, and I may be totally wrong, but I honestly think ( and sincerely hope) that the smaller savers are beginning to move centre stage in the struggle to reach a solution to our problems.

Like Lester F, I am familiar with and had the greatest respect for T.S. Mooney, having listened to him speaking on many occasions. Furthermore, I am pretty sure had he been a PMS saver and got a 'tip off' about the impending trouble, he would have cared enough about others not to rush in and take his money out (as obviously many other caring Irish Presbyterians did) leaving the rest of us stranded.

I am not aware of having read a post in which Silent Witness 'revealed' his identity, however, I have read posts in which Lester F has allegedly 'uncovered' SW's identity. From a personal point of view, names mean nothing, being a saver in the PMS is a private decision I took - I wouldn't want close members of my family to know, and worry, about the fact that I stand to lose all of the benefits I accrued from working for over 40 years.

My hope is that we will receive good news soon that will not only bring an end to our worries but also put a stop to 'all finger pointing' and bad feeling

Grandad, I too do not want close members of my family to know that I have lost my savings.

There is no personal vendatta. However, I am angry with Silent Witness and the 2 other Trustees of the Howie Christian Charitable Trust. Their court action has ensured that thousands of PMS shareholders will never see their PMS savings.

With respect, Silent Witness revealed his identity when he stated that he was a Trustee of the Howie Christian Charitable Trust and of the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland. Only one man holds these 2 positions. Other details he provided such as elder, lawyer, and year of birth confirmed his revelation.

Ernest Howie has every right legally to first call on his money. He is not a Presbyterian, why should be care about others who will lose out on his account. Silent Witness on the other hand has a moral responsibility towards ordinary Presbyterians as an elder and Trustee of the General Assembly of the Presbyterian in Ireland.

I wonder if anyone will be brave enough to raise this issue at the Extraordinary meeting of the General Assmebly. It goes right to the heart of the church's response to the PMS crisis. One of the General Assembly's own Trustees has made a bad situation worse for 6000 PMS savers.

Toastandbutter

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Election-could-ground-progression-on.6204739.jp

BETRAYED

NewsLetter
Published Date: 06 April 2010
The possibility of a General Election being called imminently could block any possible announcement by the Prime Minister on the Presbyterian Mutual Society crisis.
Last week First Minister Peter Robinson announced that he had put a proposal to Gordon Brown that would substantially rescue PMS savings, as hopes of a commercial bank take-over failed. ……………………………….......

However, a spokeswoman for 10 Downing Street said yesterday that she was not sure if Mr Brown would be free to announce a decision on the proposal during purdah - the period during an election when Government announcements are restricted in order to prevent electoral advantage to the party in power.

Toastandbutter

BTW


John McFall is retiring and is not standing in this election.

In case anyone might like to wish him a happy retirement and thanks him for his immense work on the PMS issue with the Treasury Select Committee, here is his email address;-


The Rt Hon John McFall Mp Chairman Of The Treasury Select Committee - [EMAIL="mcfallj@parliament.uk"]mcfallj@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]


If anyone knows the email details of other TSC members it would be good to post them below so they could be thanked too.

Toastandbutter

Rt Hon John McFall MP (Labour, West Dunbartonshire) (Chair)
Nick Ainger MP (Labour, Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire)
Mr Graham Brady MP (Conservative, Altrincham and Sale West)

Mr Colin Breed MP (Liberal Democrat, South East Cornwall)
Jim Cousins MP (Labour, Newcastle upon Tyne Central)
Mr Michael Fallon MP (Conservative, Sevenoaks) (Chair, Sub-Committee)
Ms Sally Keeble MP (Labour, Northampton North)
Mr Andrew Love MP (Labour, Edmonton)
John Mann MP (Labour, Bassetlaw)

Mr James Plaskitt MP (Labour, Warwick and Leamington)

John Thurso MP (Liberal Democrat, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)
Mr Mark Todd MP (Labour, South Derbyshire)
Mr Andrew Tyrie MP (Conservative, Chichester)

Sir Peter Viggers MP (Conservative, Gosport)

Contacts

All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerks of the Treasury
Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone
number for general enquiries is 020 7219 5769;

the Committee’s email address is

treascom@parliament.uk.

BETRAYED

Could anyone tell me if the clowns at Stormont are off for the election.
See Arlene Foster is busy with the Sean Quinn issue.

irishjohn

This election will only affect the Westminster Parliament which is dissolved and after April 12th will not sit again until 18th May. The devolved assemblies and the Scottish Parliamnet will carry out business as usual on whatever they have authority for. There may however be a degree of absenteeism on the part of the Assembly members who need to get out and canvass the electorate to be re-elected to Westminster.

pms_overload

<P>Will investors be permitted to take part in the Special Assembly? The Code of PCI prevents those having a pecuniary interest taking part in Congregational Committee meetings discussing such matters. If that is right for Committees it is right for the General Assembly as well.</P>
<P><BR>In the News Letter of 30 March 2010 Stafford Carson is quoted: "There is a widespread misunderstanding that the General Assembly has control over considerable funds and resources which could easily be used as part of a rescue plan for the PMS.<BR><BR>"The fact is that there are only very small amounts of undesignated funds held centrally by the General Assembly.<BR><BR>"If the Presbyterian Church must make a contribution, then those resources will have to be raised Sunday by Sunday by the people in the pews."</P>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So there you have it at last, its the people in the pews who will be expected to bail out the investors. However with headlines like "We want every penny returned" (News Letter 30 MArch 2010) we could never have been in any doubt about their position.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P>There are plenty of us who have lost money in this recession who won’t be getting and aren’t expecting a bail out. There are 360,500 Presbyterians who had no say in the running of the Mutual society and 9,500 who did. It is quite unfair to ask those who had no say including very many people who aren’t fortunate enough to have spare money to invest such as widows and single parents to come up with money for those who do. I do not see why the 360,500 should bear any responsibility for the situation that has arisen. The investors must bear some responsibility themselves. This was a mutual society – it did exactly what it said on the tin. It wasn’t a bank. The investors appointed the directors, they received annual reports, they were invited to the AGM’s. Their fellow Presbyterians weren’t. <BR> <BR>The Assembly is to be held on Tuesday; Thursday's nearly over and we still have no word of what the proposals of OFMDFM are.  The signs from Downing St are that there will be nothing put forward this side of the General Election.  Is there any point in the Assembly proceeding?</P>

Dr._Who_2

Am getting the impression from Reports received that all that will be discussed on Tuesday is a PCI contribution to a Government inspired "Hardship Fund" - this is important but not all that we want or need - ALL of the PEOPLE need ALL of their MONEY returned.
If PMS wasn't regulated it wasn't our fault - others should have known!!
If PMS was badly managed again not our fault - few of us would have had the expertise to see this.
If PMS collapsed because of Government policy on guarantees again not our fault.

Beginning to wonder is there a point to taking the time to go on Tuesday!! Will be streamed to the internet - contact Communications Office in Church House to find out about that. Also keep an eye on PCI website for any new info.

NAR

Dr._Who wrote: »

Am getting the impression from Reports received that all that will be discussed on Tuesday is a PCI contribution to a Government inspired "Hardship Fund" - this is important but not all that we want or need - ALL of the PEOPLE need ALL of their MONEY returned.
If PMS wasn't regulated it wasn't our fault - others should have known!!
If PMS was badly managed again not our fault - few of us would have had the expertise to see this.
If PMS collapsed because of Government policy on guarantees again not our fault.

Beginning to wonder is there a point to taking the time to go on Tuesday!! Will be streamed to the internet - contact Communications Office in Church House to find out about that. Also keep an eye on PCI website for any new info.

Did the Ministers/Church not recommend this to the congregations? Without telling people it was not without risk, then surely this is a case of misselling. Get them to cough up.