NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

dobefan

Why if someones savings is less than 20k does it mean its less important than someone with more than 20k ?

Is this going to be yet another example of one law for the rich and another for those that made them so?

I'm not looking for a scape goat or even anyone to blame ... I just want my hard earned cash back, infull please.

There is only one answer to this ... our government stands up and holds the bag, just like they're doing for other institutions.

Cheers

MamaMia_2

I am just about to draft emails to local polititians. I have Arlene Fosters email address and I think it would be useful to compile a list of others - so can anyone add to the list?

joylikes2shop

I think this web site and the opportunity to see other peoples thoughts and views about the current PMS situation is invaluable.Without it I would feel so isolated, alone and depressed.
The speed at which the number of names is growing on the petition website has truly amazed me and is some how comforting to see.....http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Save-the-Mutuals/

In the same way that I find this website so helpful,I'm also mindful that we could end up causing some sort of 'witch hunt' by either repeating some 'rumor' that we've heard which could prove to be nothing more than just that-a rumor. Maybe I'm being naive here,but please be careful that none of us point the finger of blame at any one individual.This current situation has not been caused by one person alone. :cool:
If my understanding of the Administrators report is correct, the FSA are currently looking into how the PMS has been run,and if there have been any irregular dealings surely we will be told in due course........Then we can start the witch hunt...:rotfl:
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the only 'fact' that we know for sure is that the PCI have denied any connection with the PMS and this alone has been a shock to most people.:mad: Hopefully the PCI will be able to do something to redeem their reputation and gain some respect from PMS investors by coming up with a solution to this whole mess.

In the mean time I've been advised that to keep lobbying our MLA's and UK government is the best way forward.

expat68

Dobefan

The difference is due to company law. Investments up to £20K are treated as share capital i.e. your savings bought shares in the PMS. Any amounts above £20K were treated as loans. Under company law shareholders only receive money after everyone else who is owed is paid - unfortunately shareholders rank at the bottom of the pile in terms of getting paid.

That said the administrator has recognised that the PMS was operated - refer to para. 3 page 5. All members will probably be given the option to vote if the initial resolutions are accepted.

Dont be too harsh on those with bigger investments - it just means they will lose more and there are a lot of pensioners with their life savings in there. They are not rich, they just mistakingly trusted the PMS and didnt spread their money around.

MamaMia_2

EMAIL ADDRESSES OF NI ASSEMBLY MEMBERS

OK gays and gals I have just found a list of all NI assembly members and email addresses on the ni assembly site:
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/members/membership07.htm

So next step after signing the petition is to email your local politicians. As Expat said in an earlier post, the emails are probably filtered out first, but if enough people email then hopefully the message will get through.

I would recommend the title of your email to be in CAPITALS and include PRESBYTERIAN MUTUAL SOCIETY - this will hopefully make the PMS emails standout.

So get mailing!

facingthefuture

The whole thing is we don't know if anyone actually did anything legally wrong. Therefore we must be careful not to allege anything. It is ok to talk in a general way of course. Hopefully at some point the high court will come clean and allow the entire situation to be transparent at some stage in the future. In the meantime there is a moral duty for the church to provide all the necessary help to those investigating, no matter what financial cost. Court proceedings need to be conducted in an open court.
Is the financial regulator investigating this situation and if so who is investigating their possible lack of action. In the same way is the Law Society as the union of solicitors investigating any of it's members actions (and is therefore not impartial)?
I can't help but think any inquiry/investigation needs to be conducted by external bodies to ensure fair play.
Someone, somewhere has this money and it needs to be traced and frozen asap.


jon_groovy - I have sent you a message

ballyblack

Someone, somewhere has this money and it needs to be traced and frozen asap.

Its 'invested' in property assets which may be toxic*

*Toxic= nobody knows the real value

You should sue the Presbyterian Church if they advised/recommended you to invest thus in this scheme

expat68

MamaMia wrote: »

EMAIL ADDRESSES OF NI ASSEMBLY MEMBERS

OK gays and gals I have just found a list of all NI assembly members and email addresses on the ni assembly site:
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/members/membership07.htm

So next step after signing the petition is to email your local politicians. As Expat said in an earlier post, the emails are probably filtered out first, but if enough people email then hopefully the message will get through.

I would recommend the title of your email to be in CAPITALS and include PRESBYTERIAN MUTUAL SOCIETY - this will hopefully make the PMS emails standout.

So get mailing!

Oh my lord - looks who's at the top. Maybe we should ask Mr Adams and his best friend Martin to pay a little visit to the PCI for some lobbying ??:rotfl:

Keep mailing everyone - I'm still waiting for my response from Arlene

eldivo

facingthefuture wrote: »

Someone, somewhere has this money and it needs to be traced and frozen asap.

To help understand whats happened
Loans were taken from the PMS to buy risky assets such as buy to lets and Develoment land. With the security for the loan being those same risky assets. (Give me some money to help buy a Buy to let, if i cant pay you back you can have my buy to let)
Those risky assets are now not worth what was paid for them. So the individuals who took out the loan can not pay it back and will hand the asset over to the PMS and walk away.
If the PMS then sells the asset it will not make back the money it loaned out.

As far as we know no one has stolen your money. Just lost it.

Thats not to say bad investments were not made by the PMS itself


look at this link

http://business.scotsman.com/commercialproperty/Arlington-moves-in-on-Aberdeen.2820993.jp

You will see

"GLASGOW also has a buoyant office market and this has helped joint venture property fund AWG Property/WG Mitchell offload Citypoint 2 for £12.75m just seven weeks after buying it for £9m"

The lucky buyer was "Free Presbyterian Mutual Society" . Now, knowing the standard of journalism in the Scotsman I will assume thats the PMS.

Now, that may have been a decent deal at the time, i can see why the steady rental income would have been attractive. But the principal is the same, if they were to sell it now they would not get £12.75m.

crazymess

ok we've all probably realised the situation isn't good.

We can blame all we like but its not going to get our money back - leave all that for enquiries down the line.

The main petition to Downing Street is going well - joylikestoshop pointed out about the date? Any success with the person to get it moved closer? Perhaps we still need the time on this as there are many investors that really don't know whats going on.

Keep sending the letters to all the MPS. Ulster Unionists seem to be on the ball - come on DUP help!!!

The PCI are probably keeping quiet on all of this because they have been told to by their Legal People. I still thought we could have gone with goodbyepci's petition on that one - but need your ideas.

One thought: When the PMS started in 1982 - where did the funds come from?.......................

If the PMS ceases to trade and makes a surplus!!!! (highly unlikely) but say it did - where do the funds go?????