NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

crazymess

This seems to be the reply from the NIO office they are all talking about today!

Let me assure you that the Government is monitoring the situation in respect of the PMS and is awaiting the Administrator's report to see what it contains.

The legislation governing the running of an Industrial and Provident Society is devolved to Northern Ireland and not decided at Westminster. The Act sets out how an IPS like PMS must operate, but as I said on Friday, the FSA has concluded that the PMS was carrying out unregulated activities so in those circumstances it is difficult to see how tax payers could contribute financially because PMS was acting outside the rules. Direct Rule Ministers during the period were heading up NI Departments but the Northern Ireland Statute book still continued in force. No other IPS in GB or NI has reported any difficulties and this is probably because they are acting in accordance with the legislation.

I'm sorry if this sounds very technical, but people who put their money into PMS were investing in risk capital (similar to investing in shares) not saving in a bank even if they thought they were doing so. This is why the PMS is in a different category entirely to a bank or a building society which pays the levy that guarantees savers' deposits. And of course the Government has not stepped in to assist those people whose investments in shares have gone down or been lost and there would be criticism from tax payers I think were it to do so.

I fear that many who invested in PMS thought or presumed it was a bank or building society and safeguarded but as I hope I have made clear it wasn't and that is why there is no role for any financial package to be made available for those who chose to invest in the PMS.

Let me stress again that it has been very distressing to read about so many difficulties that you and other investors have been undergoing and Ministers are aware of the suffering of many people. I do hope that the amount of money that the Administrator is able to make available to PMS investors is a substantial percentage of the money invested.

Nomad25

I'm sorry if this sounds very technical, but people who put their money into PMS were investing in risk capital (similar to investing in shares) not saving in a bank even if they thought they were doing so.

This is cop out cr*p.

Whose responsibility was it to inform savers that the PMS had moved outside their remit?

How were savers to know what was going on? Obviously DETNI did.

Why didn't DETNI put a stop to it?

Bannside_2

From today's Belfast Telegraph.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/delay-in-winddown-of-presbyterian-mutual-society-14300542.html

readyforaction

Letters have been written to PCI, DETI, Treasury and Government and let's face facts - the most recent letters received imply that this matter is a devolved matter so do NOT hold out hopes for Government assistance.

Optimism is quickly waning.

Everyone, it is time to get your act in gear and start to apply pressure on PCI - they have tried every angle to wriggle out of this but it looks as if the net is slowly closing in and soon PCI will have nowhere to hide.

PCI, I sincerely hope that you are working on your bail-out plans because this scandal has the potential to rock the church to its very core and within the next few years, Presbyterianism may only be a dirty word on everyone's lips and Church House an entertainment centre.

KingVardas

Dipping in again. Some recent posts v interesting. There's a link to a goverment answer in the Lords in which they said - "Organisations such as the PMS which are registered as industrial and provident societies (IPSs) are exempt from regulation by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) in respect of accepting deposits in the form of withdrawable share capital. Societies should make clear to members that their deposits are risk capital, held in the form of share capital that can be withdrawn. Under IPS legislation, any one member's shareholding is limited to £20,000. Being outside of FSA regulation, the PMS and its members do not contribute to, and are therefore not protected by, the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS)."
So, if your Society did not give you share certificates in return for your money, then they were definitely acting outside the rules.

abeliever

crazymess wrote: »

This seems to be the reply from the NIO office they are all talking about today!

Let me assure you that the Government is monitoring the situation in respect of the PMS and is awaiting the Administrator's report to see what it contains.

The legislation governing the running of an Industrial and Provident Society is devolved to Northern Ireland and not decided at Westminster. The Act sets out how an IPS like PMS must operate, but as I said on Friday, the FSA has concluded that the PMS was carrying out unregulated activities so in those circumstances it is difficult to see how tax payers could contribute financially because PMS was acting outside the rules. Direct Rule Ministers during the period were heading up NI Departments but the Northern Ireland Statute book still continued in force. No other IPS in GB or NI has reported any difficulties and this is probably because they are acting in accordance with the legislation.

I'm sorry if this sounds very technical, but people who put their money into PMS were investing in risk capital (similar to investing in shares) not saving in a bank even if they thought they were doing so. This is why the PMS is in a different category entirely to a bank or a building society which pays the levy that guarantees savers' deposits. And of course the Government has not stepped in to assist those people whose investments in shares have gone down or been lost and there would be criticism from tax payers I think were it to do so.

I fear that many who invested in PMS thought or presumed it was a bank or building society and safeguarded but as I hope I have made clear it wasn't and that is why there is no role for any financial package to be made available for those who chose to invest in the PMS.

Let me stress again that it has been very distressing to read about so many difficulties that you and other investors have been undergoing and Ministers are aware of the suffering of many people. I do hope that the amount of money that the Administrator is able to make available to PMS investors is a substantial percentage of the money invested.

Crazymess

How can you/we be sure that this correspondence is as it seems?

I am not for one moment questioning your integrity! However, as you will be aware disinformation appears from time to time - and confuses us all !!

purt

readyforaction wrote: »

Letters have been written to PCI, DETI, Treasury and Government and let's face facts - the most recent letters received imply that this matter is a devolved matter so do NOT hold out hopes for Government assistance.

Optimism is quickly waning.

Everyone, it is time to get your act in gear and start to apply pressure on PCI - they have tried every angle to wriggle out of this but it looks as if the net is slowly closing in and soon PCI will have nowhere to hide.

PCI, I sincerely hope that you are working on your bail-out plans because this scandal has the potential to rock the church to its very core and within the next few years, Presbyterianism may only be a dirty word on everyone's lips and Church House an entertainment centre.

Good heavens. I posted something along these lines months ago when this scandal first broke. At the time, my posts went largely ignored.

It's good to see some of you are finally seeing sense and where the blame for this sorry mess lies; your church!

crazymess

abeliever

Not too sure if you have been writing letters to NIO etc - but if you do perhaps you too will see their current replies as above.

Also think the BBC has some reference to it on their website - understand also that this info was slightly discussed on Radio Ulster this a.m.

sickasaparrot

Good morning Ulster - listen again link

The interview starts 1 hour and 5 minutes into the programme.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00kdp57/Good_Morning_Ulster_14_05_2009/

crazymess

KingVardas

We did get share certificates up to £20,000 - pieces of paper with Share Certificate on it - but importantly these did not increase or decrease in value - capital stayed the same but accrued interest every March.

Anything above this was given as a LOAN NOTE (ie we lent the PMS money) therefore called creditors in company terms. Again capital stayed the same but with interest every March.

But to the ordinary person it was just savings with yearly interest.

However:::

It seems now that this was the structure - ie it was set up as a Company - under the Ind and Provident Society Act ........ and when taking our money/deposits - it was then changed into these weird and wonderful bits of paper!!!!! Operating in many ways like a bank - but with no banking system or regulation in place.