NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

brick

Dr._Who wrote: »

Also probably Arlene Foster is right - it was up to PMS Directors to ensure that investment policy was within the law. Can't understand that as the Board has solicitors and accountants on it who, surely, should have known their own business!!

I'm not a business type, but statements in annual reports (examples below) would lead one to believe that PMS were extremely diligent with respect to corporate governance.

Now, I don't know if "corporate governance reviews" include things like cross-checking current business activity against the terms of one's legal remit/licence, but I would have thought it should.

Again, it is something we look forward to eventually hearing, from someone.

2004 - Your Board has given serious consideration to the future of the Society in the light of its remarkable expansion and at present is is carrying out a review into its corporate governance in order to make sure it is soundly based and wisely administered in the future.

2005 - Since last year, as a result of our consideration of corporate governance, we have introduced some changes...

2007 - Last year I reported that we were looking carefully at the governance of the society and this has now been fully carried out.

readyforaction

Excellent work Brick. Yes it would be helpful if someone would comment on this.

Please see this in today's NL
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/DETI-not-to-blame-for.5203562.jp

red_bertie

So based on the premis that DETNI is not at fault for ensuring PMS directors joined the appropriate regulatory body, [who does financially 'police' NI bodies operating outside the normal checks?], it would mean that anyone dealing with other people's finances, could just trot out a load of porkies to cover themselves and nobody is going to check.

If the FSA had followed the 'directors know best and which scheme to join' then any regulation of any kind would be pointless. Give me a break, squealing little DETNI piggies.

pensiongone

Dr._Who wrote: »

Please remember that many of our Ministers invested with PMS - they feel they can't say anything but I know of some situations of very real difficulty esp. in relation to retirement properties. !

It is strange, and very sad and wrong, if Ministers who have invested with PMS feel they can't say anything.

Can't say anything to who?

The media?
Their congregation?
Each other?
Church House?
General Assembly?

Could it be that they have been told by Church House to say nothing?

Dr._Who_2

It seems that PMS submitted an annual report ot Aunt Detty (DETNI) as they are required to do by law - this would detail their accounts and, no doubt, business practices!! Aunt Detty didn't "squeal" FOUL at any time!!
There's much here that bears investigation - perhaps Aunt Detty might come on this forum and explain herself!!
Seems hard to understand that FSA states that they found the PMS to be operating outside guidelines and yet, when contacts, is either unwilling or unable to say what the problems are - if they found grounds for prosecutions then let FSA tell us. Their report is, at best, incomplete!!

crazymess

INDUSTRIAL AND PROVIDENT SOCIETIES NI (2006)

COMMENCEMENT
Articles 1 and 2 of the Order shall come into operation on the 14th day of March 2006. The remaining provisions of the Order shall come into operation on such day or days as the Department may by Order appoint.



Does this mean that the rest of the ORDER was forgotten about or overlooked or there was direct rule then there was the devolved assembly back to directo rule etc??????


BACKGROUND AND POLICY OBJECTIVES

3. The Order is intended to bring the legislation governing Industrial
and Provident Societies in Northern Ireland into line with the
equivalent legislation in Great Britain - in particular, the
Co-Operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2003.

4. The Industrial and Provident Societies (Northern Ireland) Order will
form part of the Department's strategy to help Industrial and Provident
Societies (I&P Societies) in Northern Ireland to reach their full
potential, by removing legal, regulatoryand policy barriers that may act
as obstacles to their growth and development. The aim is to create a
supportive and enabling framework, ensuring that the needs of I&P
Societies' members are met, at the same time protecting their interests.
By modernising key policy areas, the Department intends to create a
regulatory environment which will encourage I&P Societies to maximise
their contribution to social and economic development in Northern
Ireland.

5. The main purpose of the Order is to achieve the above mentioned
objectives by creating parity between I&P Societies legislation in
Northern Ireland and Great Britain. I&P Societies in GB are regulated by
comparatively recent legislation, most notably the Co-Operative and
Community Benefit Societies Act 2003. In order to avoid I&P Societies in
Northern Ireland being left behind GB, this draft Order applies many of
the provisions of the recent GB legislation to NI legislation, amending
the appropriate sections of the Industrial and Provident Societies Act
(Northern Ireland)1969 and inserting new provisions where necessary.


PERHAPS DETI CAN EXPLAIN?



IT SEEMS AS IF THIS HAD BEEN IMPLEMENTED BY DETI THEN WE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME AS A MUTUAL IN ENGLAND, SCOTLAND AND WALES.

Dr._Who_2

I can ASSURE you that in PCI no one can "gag" a Minister, even the "establishment"!! There has been no such instruction - many Ministers are acting supportively. But Ministers feel that care needs to be taken as to what is said publicly, laws of libel, slander etc etc. I can assure you that there'll be a lot more said in the Assembly. Problem there is that we have so few FACTS to go on - normally the Assembly debates a report but there's no such thing here. We would need a FULL report on the role of PMS Directors, Aunt Detty, Uncle Fred (FSA) and PCI. Some day we need that - but its not there yet. Too much rumour and specualtion at the moment. Please don't be too hard on the Ministry - they do a fine job in lots of ways and often find themselves in akward situations! What about our Ruling Elders and Committee members!! I would like to see a MASSIVE lobby directed to Aunt Detty from every Kirk Session in Northern Ireland - don't forget also our brethern in Republic of Ireland, some of whom face difficulty. Who is responsible there? any settlement of PMS MUST take account of them!!

Nomad25

It is a great pity the ministers were not gagged when they were handing out financial advice. Also is a great pity they were not gagged when they raving about the PMS at the general assembly

:T Well said that man.

Dr Who - You seem to be in a knowing position. Reading your posts, you are not a minister, yet have provided what appears to be 'inside' info. I think your comments are correct - they are 'between a rock and a hard place.'

On a completely different thought, I was wondering if any of these no win, no fee companies would take this on, or would that be too much to hope for.

readyforaction

PROTECTION OF SAVERS
Sorry if this seems foolish but surely the administrator will be renewing the insurance.
At the end of the day is he not working on the SAVERS' behalf?
I think we need to be talking with him about this.

crazymess

AND ITS IN THE CHURCH'S INTEREST AND YOURS!!!!!!!!!




There seems to be a very angry feeling across the churches now. It has taken over five months for the Savers of the Presbyterian Mutual Society to finally realise that PCI are doing nothing to help and that it looks as if they will be lucky if they even get 50p in the pound back - many of the Savers kept thinking the CHURCH will sort this out.

This is harsh reality - PCI keep saying they need details - well can they not read the details of the Administrators previous report - also some say that the General Assembly cannot discuss this without the facts -

The General Assembly and PCI will have the next report from the Administrator by end of May - surely they can read it, get financial advice, discuss it and deal with it!!!

The GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND PCI got us into this way back in 1982 - and continued to promote it - therefore they need to be working with DETI and Wesminister and get us out of this.