NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

Dr._Who_2

Basically the list of people to contact has already been given at post 1975 and one or two others: will try to see if this might be possible to get letter on here.

joylikes2shop

goodbyepci wrote: »

Dr Who
Please would you or someone else who has a copy of the letter emailed to Presbytery Clerks, post the text here for the benefit of the number of "expat" posters on this thread.

They are working on behalf of their parents, and maybe have no access to a Presbytery Clerk.

Thanks

I have just spoken to Mr McGimpsey (see Newsletter article) who has given me his permission to put a copy of the letter he recently sent to the Clerks of presbytery.
He also gave me some other information which I will type up and put on later, but in the mean time this is the letter....


Dear All

Further to my telephone conversations with you 7-10 days ago concerning personal lobbying regarding frozen funds in the PMS due to the Society going into Administration, please accept my sincere thanks for giving me a hearing and listening to what I had to say.

As you are aware, a lobbying group of which I am a part are intensively lobbying Parliamentarians in the House of Commons and Peers in the House of Lords for support for financial assistance for PMS savers by way of some form of Government financial intervention.

I am in contact with our Moderator, Rev Dr Donald Patton, The Rt Hon Jeffrey Donaldson MP MLA Lagan Valley Constituency, Mr James Allister QC MEP, Danny Kennedy MLA for South Armagh and Mr Seymour Crawford TD Fine Gael, Monaghan and Cavan all of whom are doing tremendous work on behalf of PMS investors in the whole of Ireland.

Recently, lobbying by personal letter to the European Parliament tipped the scales concerning a very important agricultural matter in Northern Ireland resulting in a successful conclusion for our farmers.

The Petition that we signed does not give any idea of personal stories nor does it reflect the true hardship, suffering, anxiety, isolation and concern that individuals are experiencing or the negative impact that it is having on building projects in relation to our Presbyterian Churches, halls and manses.

Please be aware that lobbying for PMS investors is now at a very critical stage and it is crucial that we continue to lobby firmly, solidly and intensely if we are to be successful.

Therefore, I appeal to you to urgently consider contacting PMS savers in your Church who are known to you and make them aware of the content of this letter and strongly encourage them to either email or write to the following Members of Parliament, House of Lords, and The Northern Office at the following addresses:

Rt Hon Frank Field MP Email to: [EMAIL="hendeyj@parliament.uk"]hendeyj@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]
(Very influential)

Rt Hon John McFall MP Email to: [EMAIL="john.mcfall@blueyonder.co.uk"]john.mcfall@blueyonder.co.uk[/EMAIL]
Chairman Of House of Commons
Select Treasury Committee

Rt Hon John Mann MP Email to: [EMAIL="mannj@parliament.uk"]mannj@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]
Select Treasury Committee

Rt Hon Andrew Tyrie MP Email to:tyriea@parliament.uk
Select Treasury Committee

Rt Hon G Mudie MP Email to:mudieg@parliament.uk
Select Treasury Committee


Rt Hon Michael Fallon MP Email to:fallonm@parliament.uk
Vice Chairman

Select Treasury Committee


Rt Hon George Osborne Email to: www.georgeosborne.co.uk

Shadow Chancellor


Rt Hon Kate Hoey MP Email to: [EMAIL="hoeyk@parliament.uk"]hoeyk@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]

Rt Hon David Cameron MP Email to: [EMAIL="camerond@parliament.uk"]camerond@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]
Leader Of The Opposition –

Conservative


Letters to Members Of Parliament should be addressed to: The House of Commons, London, SW1A OAA.

We are advised that we must write to the Prime Minister at 10 Downing Street,
London SW1A 2AA. This is a crucial necessity.

Members Of The House Of Lords:

The Lord Trimble

The Lord Morrow

The Lord Laird
The Lord Maginnis
The Lord Eames
The Lord Turner
Baroness Paisley

Letters to Peers should be addressed to: The House of Lords, London SW1A OPW

Mr Shaun Woodward MP, Secretary Of State For Northern Ireland:

Email: [EMAIL="woodwardsh@parliament.uk"]woodwardsh@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]

Mr Paul Googins MP Security Minister For Northern Ireland:

Email: [EMAIL="paulgoogins@nio.x.gsi.gov.uk"]paulgoogins@nio.x.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Letters can be addressed as outlined below:

Northern Ireland Office

11 Millbank Road
London
SW1P 4PN
OR
Northern Ireland Office
Block B
Castle Buildings
Stormont Estate
Belfast
BT4 3SG

Those with email facilities can forward separate letters on behalf of savers who wish them to do so. Can you please ensure that our elderly who perhaps are too ill to attend church or unable to write letters for themselves receive as much support and assistance as possible.

To date, Lord Morrow, Lord Eames and Mr Frank Field MP have confirmed that we have their full support. Mr George Mudie MP, Treasury Committee has confirmed that he is giving the PMS attention. Rev Dr Harold Good Ex President of The Methodist Church In Ireland has offered to do whatever he can to assist.

In addition, feel free to email or write to any Conservative MP or Peer whom you consider may offer support. Names can be found on Alphabetical A-Z ‘s under the British Government/House of Lords on respective websites.

Personal stories are required to outline a measure of the hardship, stress, and isolation being experienced by PMS savers. Please ensure that these words are included in all correspondence. Those emailing/writing should make their correspondence personal to them. Separate emails/letters are required for maximum effect. Letters could also include that; the British Government has a majority share holding in the The Royal Bank Of Scotland of which the Ulster Bank is a subsidiary. Government should be asked to consider giving the PMS a loan to guarantee all deposits. As assets are sold off on property rentals, the RBS could be repaid. Alternatively, if any savers have their own views or suggestions as to how best Government could assist, please include this.

Savers should also include that, they would not have invested with the PMS had they been aware that there was no FSA authorisation in view of it being licensed under the Industrial Provident Societies Act 1969. Furthermore, that they believed that the requisite authorisation automatically followed and that their savings were safe.

Furthermore, please note that to date, the British Government has intervened with financial assistance to save all other Banks/Building Societies (and overseas banks) in the United Kingdom that became troubled except the PMS. In Northern Ireland we have not been afforded equitable treatment, which is grossly and morally unfair.

It is my understanding that the PMS falls between the ambits of two sets of legislation i.e.:

There appears to be a “loophole” in the law applicable to Provident Societies in Northern Ireland, which includes the PMS. In simple terms this gap must be closed by Government and urgent steps implemented to ensure that the law is corrected. The responsibility appears to lie between the British Government under (Direct Westminster Rule) and the Northern Ireland Executive, if not both.

I believe that with a sustained campaign of lobbying that we can begin to make a real difference and that it will assist our political representatives to continue the fight for the PMS. Please remember, maximum lobbying for maximum effect and a much desired successful conclusion. The “power of the people” is crucial and we must support and be seen to support our Moderator, Mr Donaldson MP MLA, Mr James Allister QC MEP, Mr Danny Kennedy MLA and all other political representatives who seek to help us.

I cannot emphasise enough the importance of separate personal letters at this critical time. Whilst guarantees cannot be given, you will be aware that in recent days the PMS has been brought into the media spotlight and we must work to ensure that it remains there. You will be aware that our Moderator accompanied by Church colleagues along with Mr J Donaldson MP MLA and other political representatives went to The House of Commons on 1 April 2009 when the Petition was handed over and presented to Parliament. Rev Dr Patton and his colleagues met with the Chairman of The Select Treasury Committee on the same date. Recent news reports have been encouraging for the first time since this crisis began.

The PMS crisis was raised at the recent British Irish Parliamentary Conference in Co Donegal at the end of March and support was lobbied on our behalf. There is further action that my fellow lobbyists and I intend to take and we are working continually to lobby as much support as possible. On 2 April 2009 I gave an interview on Radio 4’s Money Box programme, which was broadcast nationally, in which I outlined matters contained in this letter. Mr Danny Kennedy MLA was also interviewed along with Paul Lewis, a financial expert and according to him the Prime Minister and the Chancellor are in a difficult position because they have said that no UK saver with a UK institution has lost money. That is untrue. PMS savers have lost thousands of pounds and in some cases millions.

If you have Internet access, please log on to www. Money Saving Expert. Com and click on the PMS forum. One of our lobbyists has been using this web site as a self help group as suggested by the Chairman of The Treasury Committee, Mr John McFall MP when he spoke at a meeting at Stormont a few weeks ago.

The Moderator, Rev Dr Donald Patton has given me his approval and support to forward this letter. Should you have any queries Rev Dr Patton can be contacted at: 028########. Be assured that the Moderator has and continues to make very strenuous efforts on behalf of all PMS savers and Churches that have invested with the PMS throughout the whole of Ireland.

I have received tremendous support from all Clerks of the Presbyteries that I have communicated with. In view of the foregoing, I request that as a matter of extreme urgency, you please consider contacting all Clergy ministering in all of the Presbyterian Churches in your area and request them to give their full support and co-operation which is vital to the cause of all PMS investors.

Please encourage all Presbyterians whether savers or not especially those who belong to Congregations who have deposited money with the PMS to participate.

crazymess

Dr Who

It is extremely important to contact Westminster and Stormont - however time is now running out - I understand 22nd April is when we should hear of the Pre-Budget - Treasury Report - and whether there will be any help for the PMS - FROM WESTMINISTER

We need to be realistic here - no help has been forthcoming - although we must maintain our lobbying:

But failing this:

THE PCI - AS AN ORGANISATION CAN PLEAD FOR HELP OR SOME FORM OF A FINANCIAL INTEREST FREE LOAN FROM GOVERNMENT.


We have still been denied the facility of knowing who all of the Savers are.

Remember as a group - we are unable to speak to all of the Savers - as we still do not know who they are -

However the PCI can find this information out - with a little work - and then start to introduce a recovery plan.

My feeling has always been that EVERYONE THOUGHT THEY WERE SAVING WITHIN THEIR CHURCH - even the NEWSLETTER is reporting this - DO THE PCI NOT FEEL EMBARASSED OR EVEN THREATENED PERHAPS AT THE THOUGHT OF LEGAL ACTION?

It is now time for the PCI to wake up, stand up and DEAL WITH THIS SITUATION (it is important to say that our Moderator has certainly done his part in trying to sort this out - but it seems those employed year after year in church house may not be doing the same).

We need to find out what congregations are involved, what individuals within those congregations are involved - THEN ALL VOTE CREDITORS - WE WILL THEN START TO GET PAID LITTLE BITS AT THE END OF THE SUMMER AND FOR THOSE SHAREHOLDERS WHO WILL NOT BE PAID THEN THE THE CONGREGATIONS CAN REPAY THEM FROM THEIR CREDITOR'S POT - THE PCI THEN OVER TIME CAN ORGANISE AN INTEREST FREE LOAN AND START TO REDUCE THE SHORTFALL -

THEREFORE EVERYONE IN THE END CAN GET PAID - There are those who do not need their money immediately.

So to recap:

We need to be pressing our Clerks of Presbytery with letters - demanding they deal with this at the General Assembly. Remember there are many people sitting back and going to vote for Creditors - and the shareholders will not get paid - wouldn't it be better for the PCI to get involved now.

goodbyepci

Thanks for contacting Mr McGimpsey, and posting the email joylikes2shop.

Now if this was photocopied and made available at churches tomorrow........................

There are still a few days before the Pre-Budget Treasury report referred to by crazymess

Time to get a few emails off to the relevant people perhaps?

joylikes2shop

Mr. McGimpsey asked me to emphasize to all PMS investors and/or their family members reading this forum that.....

''It is now crucial that all savers should send a letter covering the following,
hardship

stress

isolation

discrimination

lack of government guarantee

to the people (SEE BELOW) who have the power to decide on the outcome of this situation..ASAP !!!

Prime minister
You can write to the PM at the following address:
10 Downing Street,
London,
SW1A 2AA


Chancellor Rt Hon Alistair Darling MP Email to: [EMAIL="darlinga@parliament.uk"]darlinga@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]

Yvette Cooper Email to: [EMAIL="coopery@parliament.uk"]coopery@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]


Rt Hon John McFall MP Email to: [EMAIL="john.mcfall@blueyonder.co.uk"]john.mcfall@blueyonder.co.uk[/EMAIL]
Chairman Of House of Commons
Select Treasury Committee

Rt Hon Michael Fallon MP Email to:fallonm@parliament.uk
Vice Chairman

Select Treasury Committee


Rt Hon John Mann MP Email to: [EMAIL="mannj@parliament.uk"]mannj@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]
Select Treasury Committee

Rt Hon Andrew Tyrie MP Email to:tyriea@parliament.uk
Select Treasury Committee

Rt Hon G Mudie MP Email to:mudieg@parliament.uk
Select Treasury Committee



So to recap...........................

People power works !!!


Letter writing is absolutely crucial !!!


Personal stories of how you and/or your family members are being affected need to be sent to the people above who have the power to decide on the outcome of this situation..

We all need to give personal accounts of any HARDSHIP being endured,the STRESS that this situation is causing,and the ISOLATION we are feeling.
We also need to highlight the DISCRIMINATION (e.g. Dunfirmline) and the effect of the Government Guarentee.

silentpci

thank you .I have written to a lot of these personel to date but have had no reply from anyone

yamis21

Thanks I have emailed everyone this evening. Hopefully everyone reading this does the same:)

readyforaction

Thank you everyone for your constructive points.

REMEMBER THE 3 POINT PLAN

1. Loan note holders must vote to retain the creditors rights. This is the only way to maximise the return for everyone, both loan note holders and shareholders. PCI are aware that the creditors could win the vote and will do something about helping the shareholders at that stage. It is a pity that they are using TACTICAL manoeuvres once again and are letting the savers sweat it out. That is a downright disgrace.

2. Write or email Arlene Foster. DETI were responsible for ensuring that the correct protection was in place for societies like PMS. Remember - DETI also have accountability for sorting this debacle out.

3. Contact your Clerk of Presbytery so that you can be represented through them at the General Assembly. If you do not know who it is, contact or ask your minister or elder tomorrow and they will assist you.

If they are reluctant to give you this information, contact the moderator, Rev Dr Donald Patton, Church House, Fisherwick Place, Belfast Tel: 02890 322284 so that he can build up a picture of the reluctance of some ministers to mention PMS to their congregations.

All the best - keep working on those letters.

Whatnow?_3

Please find revised list:

bbrown@presbyterianireland.org;
dcowan@presbyterianireland.org;
jfell@presbyterianireland.org;
sfinlay@presbyterianireland.org;
cgamble@presbyterianireland.org;
mgault@presbyterianireland.org;
charris@presbyterianireland.org;
rherron@presbyterianireland.org;
ihunter@presbyterianireland.org;
jdavey@presbyterianireland.org;
jandrews@presbyterianireland.org;
nmcclean@presbyterianireland.org;
cmorrison@presbyterianireland.org;
jmurdock@presbyterianireland.org;
ipatterson@presbyterianireland.org;
arussell@presbyterianireland.org;
sanketell@presbyterianireland.org;
tconway@presbyterianireland.org;
tanderson@presbyterianireland.

dmxdave

Get over it
I cannot see this changing things


No matter who you email